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Scoliosis & Vitamin B12 Deficiency

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  • #16
    It is my pleasure Darrin.

    Andrea

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    • #17
      Thanks, Andrea, for the very eye opening information! I can certainly identify with some of the symptoms to various degrees, and other members in my family (also with scolio) do, too. I hope to get the tests done if my GP is willing.

      Someone just told me about a b-12 patch today- any chance this could work in lieu of shots? It sounds more convenient and pleasant than injections, and it could make one a bit more independent. edit: here's a little info about the patch: http://www.b12patch.com/vitaminb12/v...njections.html
      Last edited by pmc; 01-31-2011, 05:30 PM. Reason: added info on b-12 patches

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      • #18
        Hi pmc,

        I have heard about the patches but as I don't know of anyone who has tried them I really couldn't say how effective they would be, other than they would definitely not be anywhere near as effective as an injection. They would also be very expensive to rely on for ongoing use.

        I don't know what country you live in but there is a new liposomal B12 spray which is probably the best non-injectable product. You can buy this in the UK or Europe and this link will give you more information:

        http://www.yourhealthbasket.co.uk/in...ct_detail&p=17

        It has the best form of B12 in it - Methylcobalamin (the active form and best for nerve repair). I was involved in a small trial and most of those who tried this spray found it better than sublingual lozenges but still not as effective as an injection.

        I have not come across someone who has other family members also with Scoliosis and am interested in what other symptoms are in your family, particularly in relation to eye problems (squint or dislocated lens), mental retardation or Marfan's Syndrome features. If others in your family have any of these problems then it would be very suggestive of the presence of Homocystinuria. I have a brother with mental retardation who also has a squint and very poor eyesight. He is now in his 50s and is taking slight fits yet we can't get his doctor to listen to what might be wrong with him.

        By the way, if you were able to obtain your B12 from your doctor then you could ask to be shown how to self-inject so that you can have that freedom. I do this and it makes things so much easier, especially if you are away from home.
        Last edited by AndreaM; 01-31-2011, 05:58 PM.

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        • #19
          Hello Andrea,

          Thanks for your reply! Why do you feel the patch couldn't be as effective? I was reading about b-12 and learned that the body can only absorb so much at a time, it seemed that the patch releasing slowly over 24 hours might be a positive over one big shot. I believe some contain Methylcobalamin as well.

          I'm in the US, by the way. The patches generally look to run about US$6.00 each, and I think that'd be a week's supply. I do know there was a spray available here, but it was discontinued- it didn't say why, however.

          I'm not aware of any notable vision (I assume typical reading glasses or bifocals don't count) or mental issues in the family, but some of the shared symptoms (varying in degrees and 3 of people) are insomnia, anxiety, memory issues, ridged nails and tinnitus. My mother, 75, thinks she has 9-10 of the symptoms the list, though she was only diagnosed with very mild scolio within the year.

          Thanks again!!

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          • #20
            Some balanced scientific info on vitamins.

            This is an easily readable article. Vit B-12 deficiencies are seen most often in persons over 70 because they do not absorb B-12 well from food; a simple multivitamin is helpful.
            I have not seen anything associating scoliosis with B-12 deficiency. Genetic factors seem the most likely based on recent scientific studies.

            http://www8.nationalacademies.org/on...?RecordID=6015
            Original scoliosis surgery 1956 T-4 to L-2 ~100 degree thoracic (triple)curves at age 14. NO hardware-lost correction.
            Anterior/posterior revision T-4 to Sacrum in 2002, age 60, by Dr. Boachie-Adjei @Hospital for Special Surgery, NY = 50% correction

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            • #21
              Sublingual supplements work by being absorbed through the mucosal lining in the mouth but only a maximum of around 5% is absorbed, whereas with injections it would be about 30%. The B12 patches are obviously absorbed through the skin but there is going to be considerably less absorbed this way than injected directly into tissue and carried in the bloodstream. I agree that a slower delivery of B12 would be better but, since injecting it is definitely the most effective route, it would not be practical or advisable to inject several times daily. Patches, sprays and sublingual tablets can give some benefit but not everyone finds them effective. They would not be sufficient for someone who has an actual ongoing deficiency, particularly if their defect is genetic rather than from malabsorption. I am an example of this and need three injections a week rather than the normal 3-monthly one given to most others (although many of them cannot manage on that regime either).

              It is the general understanding in the medical profession that PA is an old person's disease but that is not now the case. Many people are developing it in their 20s and 30s and the PA Society has cases of babies and younger children having it. It is also implicated in some cases of child autism with those involved responding very favourably to B12 injections and regaining lost skills. Unfortunately, because doctors are not expecting it in younger people, they are not looking for it and many people are experiencing severe nerve damage and deterioration before themselves finally stumbling upon what is wrong with them. Deficiency caused by genetic defect often doesn't result in a low B12 level yet needs the greatest amount of B12 to treat it. Some are misdiagnosed as having MS as they develop the same demyelination of the nerves as seen in MS. However, it is treatable when caused by B12 deficiency! Homocystinuria is a genetic defect so Scoliosis being caused by a genetic fault fits with that finding.

              There is so much lack of understanding of this condition and it is worldwide. Celebrities use of B12 as an energy boost has done nothing to help this situation as doctors are now seeing it as some sort of quick fix to flagging energy. This has led to some of them refusing injections to those with a genuine deficiency.

              I have put my findings on Homocystinuria to a Neurologist who has taken me seriously and is trying to find a way for me to be tested for it. However, since hardly anyone has any knowledge of it, this is proving impossible.

              I would love to know how many people have both Scoliosis and B12 deficiency but, since so few are ever properly diagnosed with it, most of them don't actually know what is wrong with them and assume that it is just their general health which is breaking down or must be a result of deteriorating Scoliosis putting pressure on different aspects of their health.

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              • #22
                Hello,
                I'm on 4mg of folic acid per day for a different condition. One of the warnings on the mfg's label was that while you are taking this dose of folate, it can disguise or give false negatives to tests for PA. So for those of you getting tested, make sure you quit your folate ahead of time. I have many of the symptoms you listed there, but I get quite sick when I take B12. It makes me so nervous I can't stand myself. Compound nervousness with fatigue and it's a pretty greusome combination. I never noticed a reduction in pain either. I'm guessing that's not my problem.
                Be happy!
                We don't know what tomorrow brings,
                but we are alive today!

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                • #23
                  Hi rohrer01,

                  The reason for the warning about taking folic acid in the presence of an undiagnosed B12 deficiency is that it corrects the haematological signs of B12 deficiency. Having either a folate or B12 deficiency raises your MCV level and this is what doctors look for to detect megaloblastic anaemia. It makes the red blood cells large and misshapen and they can't carry oxygen properly. However, if you take folic acid, this will make the cells smaller again and disguise any B12 deficiency which might be there. In addition, if you also have an iron deficiency, this makes the cells smaller too and can give a false normal MCV (mean cell volume) level. So you can be deficient in folate, B12 and iron and yet your red blood cells will look normal. This is one of the reasons why so many people are missed as being B12 deficient.

                  You say you feel quite sick when you take B12. This is fairly normal and it is suggestive of detoxification symptoms as the B12 starts to clear toxic homocysteine from your system. Some people feel even more fatigued for a few days, or come out in boils or acne. Others feel like they have a mild 'flu with sore muscles and general aches and pains. You can also get a metallic taste in your mouth or nausea, stomach cramps, irritability and quite a few other temporary symptoms.

                  I obviously can't say whether or not you are B12 deficient but I would advise that you get properly checked for it. Since you have been on folic acid and this will disguise a B12 deficiency if it is there, the best tests for you would be Methylmalonic Acid (MMA or uMMA) and Homocysteine. Can I ask why you have been given folic acid? Were you actually deficient?

                  Andrea

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                  • #24
                    Very interesting. It's definitely something to think about. I'm on folic acid due to recurrent pregnancy loss. My OB/GYN thought it might help due to some undiagnosed problem.
                    Be happy!
                    We don't know what tomorrow brings,
                    but we are alive today!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Rohrer,

                      Recurrent miscarriage is is a recognised result of untreated B12 deficiency. Usually the loss occurs by about 10 weeks or so. The folic acid will help but it will also allow any B12 deficiency which exists to continue on causing damage.

                      If I were you, I'd really try to get this properly tested and it would do no harm to allow you a trial course of injections to see if they helped. You cannot overdose on B12 so don't be afraid to try it. It is even more important to continue to take it throughout any pregnancy as well as the folic acid to ensure you do not miscarry for that reason and also to ensure the baby is not born already deficient.

                      Have a read of this: http://www.pernicious-anaemia-societ...f6a4c7d5a1c724
                      Last edited by AndreaM; 02-04-2011, 01:43 PM. Reason: Add link

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                      • #26
                        Thanks, Andrea!

                        This is some interesting information. I've had 6 miscarriages and 3 successful pregnancies. I wonder if other scoli-moms have a higher incidence of mc as well???
                        Be happy!
                        We don't know what tomorrow brings,
                        but we are alive today!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by rohrer01 View Post
                          I wonder if other scoli-moms have a higher incidence of mc as well???
                          Yes, it would be very interesting to know this.

                          I had no problem conceiving or carrying full-term but I didn't have any symptoms at that point. It wasn't until my second child was just 18 months old that I was suddenly hit with all sorts of problems. However, looking back I see that I did have symptoms of B12/folate deficiency throughout both pregnancies and post-partum haemmorhage after the first one, which is also a very typical problem in B12-deficient mothers. Many women experience their first obvious symptoms just after a pregnancy, regardless of whether or not they have Scoliosis, as the baby takes what little B12 they have and accelerates the condition. The final straw is when they are given Nitrous Oxide (Gas & Air) during childbirth. Nitrous Oxide is very bad for B12 and should not be given at all to anyone who is B12 deficient. It also destroys B12 in healthy people but they are able to quickly make it up again and would only encounter problems if they were regularly exposed to it.
                          Last edited by AndreaM; 02-05-2011, 11:45 AM.

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                          • #28
                            Well, since we are collecting data..

                            1 successful pregnancy (twins)
                            2 MC
                            1 ectopic
                            Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                            No island of sanity.

                            Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                            Answer: Medicine


                            "We are all African."

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                            • #29
                              Some more data:

                              3 successful full term pregnancies
                              0 miscarriages
                              0 future kids, lol.
                              Son 14 y/o diagnosed January 20th. 2011 with 110* Curve
                              Halo Traction & 1st. surgery on March 22nd. 2011
                              Spinal Fusion on April 19th. 2011

                              Dr. Krajbich @ Shriners Childrens Hospital, Portland Oregon



                              http://tinyurl.com/Elias-Before
                              http://tinyurl.com/Elias-After

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                              • #30
                                LOL.

                                I should have said I only have one twin pregnancy but three kids. I count my husband. (smiley face)

                                JUST KIDDING!!!
                                Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                                No island of sanity.

                                Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                                Answer: Medicine


                                "We are all African."

                                Comment

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