Success! Down to 24 degrees!

[Pooka1]

The surgeons that I've dealt with would not be fitting Spinecor braces for their patients because they have orthotists who would do that for them. So, I don't see the time thing as a valid argument.

--Linda

Okay this response is better than mine.

I associate myself with this remark and will await mamamax's answer to Linda's response.

[LindaRacine]

No Sharon surgeons are not evil in my estimation - one once saved my life :-) I do believe most are too busy to drop everything and take the time required to achieve the level of training needed to become Spinecor certified and to apply the technique unsupervised. It's probably just that simple.

The surgeons that I've dealt with would not be fitting Spinecor braces for their patients because they have orthotists who would do that for them. So, I don't see the time thing as a valid argument.

--Linda

[Ballet Mom]

We disagree on the intelligence level of most people. I knew the difference between various doctor titles before I got out of High School -over 40 years ago

In the last 40 years of dealing with my condition, and discussing it with others, I’ve never come across someone who thought a chiropractor had the same level of title as an MD. You were not aware of this until after achieving a Master’s Degree? That’s a bit surprising. I still think most people are a little more savvy than you may be giving them credit for.

There is a LOT of misrepresented information on the Internet, and the professions where we find this is wide ranging and unlimited. Why would anyone decide to negatively classify an entire profession based on the actions of a few? Not good reasoning skills in my estimation, based upon an analytical thinking class I took in college.

And it does not appear to me that it is just a few chiropractors trying to engage in the practice of medicine by "treating" scoliosis.

The chiropractic profession is also not dismissed among the more traditional medical fields – as evidenced every day by medical doctors who often refer their patients to chiropractors for treatment. The professions often work together. I include my medical doctor/orthopedic specialist in on my Spinecor treatment (as do many other Spinecor patients) and in this way help expand the knowledge base for benefit of all.

The chiropractic profession finds a degree of respect many places – the well respected surgeon, Hans Weiss, MD, is in fact also a chiropractor (German school).

I applaud those chiropractic doctors like mine, who have made scoliosis treatment their specialty and field of focus – who have trained with Rivard and Colliard (surgeon inventors of the Spinecor brace, one of whom is an SRS member) and maintain a professional relationship with them; who have become Spinecor certified to a level where they can provide this bracing technique unsupervised; who conduct (and publish in the Scoliosis Journal) ongoing studies which duplicate the results of Rivard & Colliard; who have travelled several times to Germany to receive certification in Schroth; and who offer their education, knowledge, and expertise to many patients like myself throughout the United States every day. And, faulty reasoning skills (damning all based on the actions of a few) cannot negate the documented successes they (and other Spinecor certified chiropractors) achieve.

Just my humble opinion ;-)

My what a response. Immediately to the intelligence level are we? I don't think that knowledge that chiropractors call themselves doctors has anything to do with intelligence. Perhaps because you have dealt with scoliosis for all those years you have more exposure to all the different people who deal in various manners with spines. No one in my extended family has ever gone to a chiropractor, nor would they. And I don't think you should be assuming that most of the general population out there knows the difference just because you've had prior experience with chiros.

I certainly do believe if someone came in off the street to a Spine Care clinic and there was a person in a white coat calling himself Dr. SoandSo, and all his plaques and business cards had Dr. as the title, and he was telling me how he could treat their scoliosis with all these x-ray machines around the office, etc., I would certainly think they could very well believe he was a medical doctor. And I suspect it happens a lot. I doubt very much that the chiro is going to inform them that he is not.

I should think this could all easily be solved by having an independent review by an impartial orthopedic surgeon of the before and after x-rays (all out of brace for a specified number of hours) of these chiropractors' patients results and see if the results stand up for themselves. If they do, great, if not...the chiros should get out of the practice of medicine and focus on pain relief, which I believe is what they're supposed to be doing anyway.

[Pooka1]

No Sharon surgeons are not evil in my estimation - one once saved my life :-) I do believe most are too busy to drop everything and take the time required to achieve the level of training needed to become Spinecor certified and to apply the technique unsupervised. It's probably just that simple.

That is in fact calling them evil that they refuse necessary training to keep their patients off the operating table. I don't see how you can get around that.

They take all kinds of time to learn other things that will help their patients. There is some reason they are NOT taking the time to learn Spinecor. And by the way, how long do you think it takes to master Spinecor given that the inventors are still collecting preliminary data? I bet it is LESS time than anything else they train on.

So that is NOT the answer. Do you want to try again?

[mamamax]

Surgeons in the US couldn't be bothered to use something that will help their patients?

Are they all just evil?

I can show you at least one surgeon who cares and I bet you would be hard-pressed to even find one that didn't care about their patients. Surgeons are the good guys in this game.

No Sharon surgeons are not evil in my estimation - one once saved my life :-) I do believe most are too busy to drop everything and take the time required to achieve the level of training needed to become Spinecor certified and to apply the technique unsupervised. It's probably just that simple.

[Pooka1]

Kid15 was displaying something we all do here - a spirited reply to a spirited post ... let it go & admire her ability -

Okay I'll delete my posts.

[mamamax]

She said she would be headed for surgery absent Spinecor.

Do you believe there is evidence anyone:

a. avoided surgery with Spinecor,

and

b. avoided surgery ONLY through Spinecor and no other brace could have kept them out of surgery?

Kid15 was displaying something we all do here - a spirited reply to a spirited post ... let it go & admire her ability -

[mamamax]

Oh so you don't think any other brace besides Spinecor has a chance in hell of working then? Everyone else in n on-Spinecor braces is headed for surgery for sure? I'm sure that will come as some news to some here.

That's the logical implication of her comment which I refrained from pointing out before your comment.

No, that absolutely is not true - I think other braces also achieve some success - I wish Spinecor had been included in the BrAIST study, or will be included as that study stands to be one of the most important bracing studies in history. Joe O'Brien's family alone shows the benefits of different types of braces.

Spinecor of course, as most of us know, is not the standard TSLO type brace - it behaves differently in many ways. For many it is a brace of choice and CHOICE is what treatment is all about right?

[Pooka1]

I think the surgeons in the US could not be bothered - Go Canada!!

Surgeons in the US couldn't be bothered to use something that will help their patients?

Are they all just evil?

I can show you at least one surgeon who cares and I bet you would be hard-pressed to even find one that didn't care about their patients. Surgeons are the good guys in this game.

[mamamax]

I read it and I read Wong's reply to it. Wong was believable. Spinecor was not for the most part.

And your reputable surgeon/chiro Weiss also did Spinecor study that couldn't replicate the Montreal team's results as you know.

Why do you think the surgeons in the US abandoned or never started to use Spinecor? Are they all just nutty?

Weiss (whom I do have a GREAT deal of respect for - is also not certified to treat or apply the Spinecor technique unsupervised.

I think the surgeons in the US could not be bothered - Go Canada!!

[mamamax]

If surgeons in the US used the brace rather than abandon it or never try it based on the literature, do you think anyone would be going to chiros for the brace?

Think Kid15 responded better than I could have! Touche' Kid15

[Pooka1]

Are you kidding - Sharon, are you talking about the Spinecor rebuttal published on their website? I presume you actually read it? Please let me you did.

I read it and I read Wong's reply to it. Wong was believable. Spinecor was not for the most part.

And your reputable surgeon/chiro Weiss also did Spinecor study that couldn't replicate the Montreal team's results as you know.

Why do you think the surgeons in the US abandoned or never started to use Spinecor? Are they all just nutty?

[mamamax]

No Wong responded to the criticism. Spinecor did not respond honestly in my opinion.

Are you kidding - Sharon, are you talking about the Spinecor rebuttal published on their website? I presume you actually read it? Please let me you did.

[Pooka1]

based on my experience they would go straight to surgery which is not a option i like

If you could get Spinecor from either surgeon or a chiropractor, which would you choose and why?

[Kid_15]

based on my expierence they would go straight to surgery which is not a option i like