spinecor

[structural75]

Georgiamom,

His only concern is she seems to have spinal compression at the top and wants to do chiropractic adjustments to "open up" the vertabrae. I'm concerned about this, but haven't found anything in my research that shows there is harm to manipulating children's spines. He's also concerned about future growth spurts.

For what it's worth, it sounds like another case of ongoing chiropractic treatment that will carry no long term or significant effect. The fact is, you'll have to keep going to him in order to 'maintain' what he claims to be addressing (compression). From a clinical and professional standpoint, vertabrae will not "open up" (very misleading statement to begin with) and STAY open for any significant period of time through the use of adjustments given her curvature. Is the "spinal compression at the top" refering to her cervical spine (neck)? If so, I would very strongly caution you about REPEATED adjustments to the neck! Any good chiro would agree that nobody, especially children, should have a need for more than a handful of cervical adjustments within one years time (if at all). If they do "need" them excessively, the chiro adjustments are NOT the answer and should be abandoned.

With scoliosis there is a constant (more than usual) compressional force acting on the spine. Adjusting individual segments is futile at best (maybe for moments of acute pain) as these segments will continue to remain vulnerable to 'fixation'.

As far as the growth spurts... it could be that her body is growing "around" some other primary restriction that is quite possibly not in the spine itself. Adjustments would therefore have little or no effect during periods of growth.

I don't know if you've read any of the previous posts in this thread regarding the mechanics of adjustments, ...that might be helpful to create a better idea about what he is actually accomplishing.

Pediatric chiropractics is becoming the next vogue thing... I personally have serious concerns about infants and children receiving "adjustments" during a crucial time in vertebral, neurologic and soft tissue development. It is a relatively new field with no long term analysis to support its appropriateness/effects on development.

Just my opinion...

Best Regards,
Structural

[MATJESNIC]

Christine,

Too bad we are all on different schedules. It would be awesome to all go to Montreal at the same time.

Celia,

Thanks so much. Yes, Nicole is the one in the pink. We are all wearing heels. But you can see she is now taller than me. I think she will be a little taller than big sister, too.
Now you see what I look like. You can put my face to my name. The dress I am wearing is so not how I normally dress. I usually dress very conservatively. I don't know what I was thinking when I bought it. That dress drove me crazy that whole day.

[Celia]

Melissa,

You're beautiful! The dress looks lovely on you

[GeorgiaMom]

Structural,
Thanks so much for your informative reply. I think I am going to hold off on any adjustments for now. I have sent a message to Dr. Coillard hoping to get her opinion as well and perhaps schedule a trip to Montreal in the coming months.

I really appreciate everyone's support and advice. I am still having sleepless nights worrying about whether we've made the right decision with the Spinecor. I know there is no easy answer, so I'll leave it in God's hands that we're doing the right thing.

GeorgiaMom

[MATJESNIC]

Thank you, Celia,

You are very kind. Just realized I spelled "heels" wrong. Just fixed it.

GeorgiaMom,

I think you are doing the right thing. None of us can see into the future. But you are making the best informed decision with the information you have in the present. I do think you will feel much more confident in your decision when you go to Montreal.

[cherylplinder]

Another miraculous breakthrough by Canadian docs!
My son has had Type 1 diabetes since he was 4 years old; it has been thought to be an autoimmune disorder, where the immune system attacks the beta cells of the pancreas and destroys them like they would any infection.

Wasn't Dr. Hedden a Sick Kids doc, Celia?

This gives me a lot of hope. Not only does diabetes cost my family around 20,000 dollars or more a year(our insurance costs are around 1500 a month because of all the health problems our family has and for more than half the year, we have to pay for William's supplies until we meet the high deductible. His supplies are around 1500 a month.)But I am most concerned about the long term sequelae to diabetes, heart disease, blindness, kidney disease, stroke,.....for William.

This sounds most promising!!! More than amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!

I really never thought there would be a cure . This really gives me hope. Scoliosis is no different. Thought to be unchangeable unless by surgery after a certain point.

We know so little! I am ecstatic!




Font: * * * * Tom Blackwell, National Post
Published: Friday, December 15, 2006
In a discovery that has stunned even those behind it, scientists at a Toronto hospital say they have proof the body's nervous system helps trigger diabetes, opening the door to a potential near-cure of the disease that affects millions of Canadians.

Diabetic mice became healthy virtually overnight after researchers injected a substance to counteract the effect of malfunctioning pain neurons in the pancreas.

"I couldn't believe it," said Dr. Michael Salter, a pain expert at the Hospital for Sick Children and one of the scientists. "Mice with diabetes suddenly didn't have diabetes any more."

The researchers caution they have yet to confirm their findings in people, but say they expect results from human studies within a year or so. Any treatment that may emerge to help at least some patients would likely be years away from hitting the market.

But the excitement of the team from Sick Kids, whose work is being published today in the journal Cell, is almost palpable.

"I've never seen anything like it," said Dr. Hans Michael Dosch, an immunologist at the hospital and a leader of the studies. "In my career, this is unique."

Their conclusions upset conventional wisdom that Type 1 diabetes, the most serious form of the illness that typically first appears in childhood, was solely caused by auto-immune responses -- the body's immune system turning on itself.

They also conclude that there are far more similarities than previously thought between Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes, and that nerves likely play a role in other chronic inflammatory conditions, such as asthma and Crohn's disease.

The "paradigm-changing" study opens "a novel, exciting door to address one of the diseases with large societal impact," said Dr. Christian Stohler, a leading U.S. pain specialist and dean of dentistry at the University of Maryland, who has reviewed the work.

"The treatment and diagnosis of neuropathic diseases is poised to take a dramatic leap forward because of the impressive research."

About two million Canadians suffer from diabetes, 10% of them with Type 1, contributing to 41,000 deaths a year.

Insulin replacement therapy is the only treatment of Type 1, and cannot prevent many of the side effects, from heart attacks to kidney failure.

In Type 1 diabetes, the pancreas does not produce enough insulin to shift glucose into the cells that need it. In Type 2 diabetes, the insulin that is produced is not used effectively -- something called insulin resistance -- also resulting in poor absorption of glucose.

The problems stem partly from inflammation -- and eventual death -- of insulin-producing islet cells in the pancreas.

Dr. Dosch had concluded in a 1999 paper that there were surprising similarities between diabetes and multiple sclerosis, a central nervous system disease. His interest was also piqued by the presence around the insulin-producing islets of an "enormous" number of nerves, pain neurons primarily used to signal the brain that tissue has been damaged.

Suspecting a link between the nerves and diabetes, he and Dr. Salter used an old experimental trick -- injecting capsaicin, the active ingredient in hot chili peppers, to kill the pancreatic sensory nerves in mice that had an equivalent of Type 1 diabetes.
"Then we had the biggest shock of our lives," Dr. Dosch said. Almost immediately, the islets began producing insulin normally "It was a shock ? really out of left field, because nothing in the literature was saying anything about this."

It turns out the nerves secrete neuropeptides that are instrumental in the proper functioning of the islets. Further study by the team, which also involved the University of Calgary and the Jackson Laboratory in Maine, found that the nerves in diabetic mice were releasing too little of the neuropeptides, resulting in a "vicious cycle" of stress on the islets.

So next they injected the neuropeptide "substance P" in the pancreases of diabetic mice, a demanding task given the tiny size of the rodent organs. The results were dramatic.

The islet inflammation cleared up and the diabetes was gone. Some have remained in that state for as long as four months, with just one injection.

They also discovered that their treatments curbed the insulin resistance that is the hallmark of Type 2 diabetes, and that insulin resistance is a major factor in Type 1 diabetes, suggesting the two illnesses are quite similar.

While pain scientists have been receptive to the research, immunologists have voiced skepticism at the idea of the nervous system playing such a major role in the disease. Editors of Cell put the Toronto researchers through vigorous review to prove the validity of their conclusions, though an editorial in the publication gives a positive review of the work.

"It will no doubt cause a great deal of consternation," said Dr. Salter about his paper.

The researchers are now setting out to confirm that the connection between sensory nerves and diabetes holds true in humans. If it does, they will see if their treatments have the same effects on people as they did on mice.

Nothing is for sure, but "there is a great deal of promise," Dr. Salter said.

© National Post 2006

[Celia]

Another miraculous breakthrough by Canadian docs!
My son has had Type 1 diabetes since he was 4 years old; it has been thought to be an autoimmune disorder, where the immune system attacks the beta cells of the pancreas and destroys them like they would any infection.

Wasn't Dr. Hedden a Sick Kids doc, Celia?

Yes, dr. Hedden was a doctor at Sick Kids. He's now Chief of Surgery at Stollery Children's Hospital in Edmonton, Alberta.

This is such wonderful news for you and your family Cheryl! I have a good friend whose daughter has type 1 diabetes and I'm sure she's ecstatic as well. The doctors at Sick Kid's are BRILLIANT!! I have nothing but praise and admiration for them. Sick Kids is Holy ground for me, it's where my daughter was saved.

[MATJESNIC]

Cheryl,

I didn't realize you were dealing with diabetes with your son. I'm so sorry to hear that. I know of a few families who would also be elated by this possible breakthrough. I am sharing in your hope tonight. It's interesting because I work with a little boy with autism and when his Dad was in college, out of the blue, he developed type 1 diabetes. They think it was brought on by a virus. I had never heard of anyone that old developing type 1. Anyway, I wish you and your family nothing but good things to come your way. Do you also have a support group for Parents of kids with diabetes?

[Mom37]

Vestibular testing

It wouldn't hurt to pay dr Rivard and dr Coillard a visit and make sure the brace is being properly fitted, maybe get better correction and then continue seeing Dr. Deutchman who is closer to you. What do the rest of you think As for vestibular testing....I think it's strictly a chiropractic thing and it's not done in the Montreal office.

Sorry so late in the post but in private posts it was recommended I tell all of you. Vestibular testing is a medical testing reviewed and signed by an M.D. on reports. We were skeptical of it too. We saw Dr. Deutchman for our initial bracing and did the vestibular testing. My heath insurance paid for the vestibular testing, and in network, so I was reimbursed 100%. The brace and everything else was reimbured out of network. Due to progressive curve we had more physician opinions and an MRI was done. My daughter has Chiari I Malformation (detected by MRI) which a symptom is Nystagmus (involuntary eye movement), and difficulty in tracking objects, which is what that test is for. She also has Syringomyelia (MRI detected too) which scoliosis is one symptom of. Those are the cause of her scoliosis. These medical conditions can be found on www.asap.org if you are interested. My understanding is that many scoliosis patients have Nystagmus or difficulty in tracking objects and can benefit from this testing by following treatment of exercise therapy. My daughters was slight and therapy didn't hurt, but her other medical issues didn't help it amd probably caused it. On a side note, Dr. Deutchman's office called to check on her and her bracing, and I advised of this other medical condition and her surgery date. They were very concerned and wanted to know all they could about it. On day of her surgery, and today to they called to see how she was doing. They really showed they cared even though we are doing follow up on brace closer to us outside their practice, and went to them back in March 2006.

[Celia]

How is your daughter ? What is the prognosis ? I hope all is well.

Great to hear that you were reimbursed for the costs of the test! I don't have much time right now but we did discuss vestibular testing back on page 59 and 60 of this thread. As for right now... I have visions of sugar plums and fairies dancing in my head

[MATJESNIC]

Mom37,

I am sorry you are going through all of this. I can't remember how old your daughter is and whether she had a typical curve. I can't find the old thread. Yes, I do believe Dr. D. is a caring individual. I only received out-of-network reimbursement for everything so it ended up costing us a lot of money. I cant remember where you live. What hospital are you going to now?

Melissa

[alabama mom]

Hello everyone. I am very new to this whole forum/posting thing, but unfortunately I am not new to the scoliosis thing. This is a test post, as I am trying to figure this out. Excuse me for any mistakes, in advance.

[alabama mom]

Well, that seemed to go ok. So.....hi everyone, I have been reading the forums here for a while now, looking for answers. I am hoping that someone can help me with finding out about getting a spinecor brace for my daughter.

I recently saw that georgia mom was from Atlanta, which is where I was thinking of going to for my child. I don't live too far from there, and I go fairly often.

I am thinking of going to see Dr. Lamantia or Dr. Deutchman. I have spoken to one of them on the phone before. I felt that he sounded interested and concerned, but his office manager/secretary talked ALOT about money. It made me a little nervous.

Obviously, that is not what I am worried about, but I just felt kind of uneasy. I was hoping to get some feedback on this matter, as I see that alot of you have seen these doctors. Specifically, georgia mom and matjesnic.

I would also like to know if anyone knows how or if I can try to get this brace and treatment for my daughter, using my Alabama state sponsored insurance (All Kids). It is basically BC/BS. I would like to know if these doctors, or any one else who fits for this brace, would be able to take my insurance. Does anyone know?

I would greatly apperciate any help here. I feel like I'm going crazy. I will be looking out for any replies. Good luck to all of you and your children. Thank you.

[MATJESNIC]

AlabamaMom,

Welcome! We are glad to have you join us. I am going to send you a private message.

Melissa

[christine2]

Hi Alabama Mom

We took our daughter straight to Montreal. We are very happy we did!! You have come to the right place for information. We have learned a ton from these wonderful people. Good luck

Christine