spinecor

[gerbo]

1) any UK based DO's you know about?

I have said this before; regardless of the underlying cause, I am working on the principle that the scoliosis is partially maintained by adjustment of the ligaments round the spine, specially shortening/ contraction on the concave side (the lengthening on the convex side should be less of an issue), creating a situation similar to a contracture in any joint, which hasn't been allowed its natural range of movements for a long time. A physio would deal with a contracture by gentle/ regular stretching and I always wondered (as you know) whether a similar approach would help (a bit) in scoliosis. The chiropractic approach, with its sudden movements doesn't make sense to me, this is why I was wondering whether osteopaths would do things differently

re vestibular testing; i made the more derisory comment about that, not celia, my main objection being that I had the impression that lots and lots of money was being charged for this to be done....... (and than we could get into a long discussion about evidence based interventions etc etc, but we've done that before )

[MATJESNIC]

Christine,

I'm so happy I could help you. I'm really glad things are going well for all of you in Montreal. Nicole gets marks sometimes too. When do you go back?


Melissa

[mpj]

Christine,

Madeline is 8 years old.

Melissa,

We were in Montreal on Dec. 11. I thought you had an appointment near the time we were going to be there.

Sarah

[structural75]

Celia,

There are documented cases of formerly parapalegic/quadrapalegic individuals who learned to WALK again (despite the prognosis from their doctors) due, in part, to methods and excersices designed to correct vestibular dysfunctions, usually under the guidance of Physical Therapists and neurologists. (In fact, learning to walk again REQUIRES vestibular re-programming, otherwise it is literally impossible) Obviously paralysis is another topic altogether, but clearly demonstrates the importance of vestibular functions. Various methods/exercises are employed in PT/Physio all the time to correct vestibular imbalances.

Gerbo,

Thanks for the clarification, i completely understand your point. hope there was no offense taken... i just believe there is a lot to be learned in this realm. Much is poorly understood and overlooked.

As for chiro hvla adjustments, your right.. won't accomplish much in regards to what you're talking about. More on the DO in the UK and stretching thoughts later.

structural

[GeorgiaMom]

New to Forum and Spinecor

Hi all,
My daughter, Alayna (age 10 1/2) just received her Spinecor brace on Wednesday. We are seeing Dr. Brian Ouellette, a Chiropractor in the Atlanta, GA area. His office is only 10 miles from our house, which is great!

We first learned Alayna had Scoliosis in April as a result of her annual exam. Her initial x-ray at the ortho showed 6 degrees and we were told to come back in 6 months, which we did in November. At that time he measured her at 34 degrees and scheduled her to be fitted for a Boston Brace. While waiting for her appt., I did a lot of research about our options and, thankfully, found this board. All of this led me to find Dr. Ouellette and the Spinecor brace.

It's good news so far. First, Dr. Ouellette measured her curve at 25 degrees, not 34 and, in brace, it's 15 degrees. He seems very optimistic due to her curve being a long Type 2 Thoracic curve. His only concern is she seems to have spinal compression at the top and wants to do chiropractic adjustments to "open up" the vertabrae. I'm concerned about this, but haven't found anything in my research that shows there is harm to manipulating children's spines. He's also concerned about future growth spurts.

I'm looking forward to communicating with all of you. I'd be interested to know if you think it's worthwhile going to Montreal.

Melody
"GeorgiaMom"

[Celia]

Celia,

There are documented cases of formerly parapalegic/quadrapalegic individuals who learned to WALK again....

Show me *one* documented case of vestibular eye exercises correcting a scoliotic spine.

[gerbo]

aaaarghhh, don't start

[structural75]

Celia,

(Gerbo, don't worry, I'll keep this one to a bare minimum... not worth the effort)

I thought things were going well, until now... . I really wish we would all develop a better understanding of things before jumping down someones throat over it. For clarity.........

There is obviously some confusion here about what constitutes the vestibular system... It has to do with the EARS, NOT EYES (Ocular), specifically the canals within the inner ears that appropriates our sense of BALANCE. Which in turn can be affected by the eyes, or vice versa. All relating back to the cerebellum. Are you saying children/people with scoliosis don't often have difficulty with balance/coordination? You said it was a chiro thing, I simply clarified that it was not but rather a neurologist/audiologist specialty. The Dr. was testing her eyes because their coordination reflect inner ear disturbances, thus proprioceptive capabilities.

Vestibular definition:

Vestibular refers to your sense of balance. Your sense organs that tells you which way is up and which ways your head is accelerating is the semicircular canals. They are closely related to your hearing.

The semi-circular canals are three tiny circular tubes at right angles to each other which contain fluid and can sense when that fluid is moving in each of the three dimensions that make up our 3D space.

There are two sets of semi-circular canals; one set adjacent to each cochlea.

Nerve bundles coming from the semi-circular canals join together with your auditory nerve and carry balance signals to your brain.

Many people with hearing loss also have some degree of balance difficulties, since the vestibular (or balance) system and the auditory (or hearing) systems are so closely related.

Many audiologists also have specialized training and equipment to help diagnose and treat people with balance problems.

Let's please be clear on this one, I did NOT say anything about "eye exercises correcting scoliosis", nor did I make any reference at all about "correcting" the spine solely by working with the vestibular system. In its original context, it was regarding the multi-faceted approach suggested by the child's doctor in addition to the other methods being employed... still sounds like a very wise approach to me (there's far more influencing a scoliotic spine than just its curvature!) You told someone it wasn't worthwhile, and I strongly believe that it is, based on physiologic understandings and scientific research. I don't believe it's fair to disaude people on something we don't fully understand.

Why is it so difficult to broaden our perspective on this condition? All we hear about is surgery, bracing and "waiting". I'm not against any of those things, but treatment shouldn't end with that. And why do you insist on jumping on my case for having amicable dialogues on topics that are hardly ever considered, yet quite valuable to possibly many on this forum?

And what is the harm in MRF doing PT exercises at home for the VESTIBULAR system anyway... it doesn't cost a dime to do it at home? It might even help the overall cause... better than nothing.

kindly,
structural

[MATJESNIC]

GeorgiaMom,

Congrats on your daughter and her success so far. Any time you are dealing with a chiro, he or she will want to adjust your child. The chiro who we initially got our brace from thought Nicole should be adjusted a few times a week. My husband refused to go that route. He said he would never forgive himself if we found out later on that we had harmed our growing child.

Your daughter is young, still growing, and has scoliosis. I would find out from the orthopedic doctors who you trust what they have to say about this. I believe in chiropractors for other things. But this seems too risky.

Also, when we used to go to our chiro for Spinecor, we continued with orthopedics as well. We felt more comfortable doing that. Scoliosis is serious and should be monitored by medical doctors.

With that being said, we only go to the orthopedics in Montreal now, so it doesn't really matter.

It sounds like your daughter had a good appointment there. I am not sure what you should do as far as Montreal is concerned. Do you feel comfortable staying with this chiro?

Do not let any chiro tell you that not having the adjustments will get in the way of the Spinecor not working as well. We have many success stories with Spinecor so far and none of these children are being adjusted.

Hope I am not being too pushy. I know it is so easy to be trusting and willing to try things. But like I said before, we would have to live with the guilt of harming our children for a poor choice that we made.

Melissa

[structural75]

Celia,

Are you OK?

[GeorgiaMom]

Thanks for your response Melissa and, no, I don't mind your being very honest. I'm going to have to think about this some more I guess. I'm wondering if I call the folks in Montreal if they would give me their opinion. We are currently looking for a new orthopedic in the area, as we're not pleased with the previous one, especially since he goofed on her x-ray. I'd like to find an ortho who supports our use of "alternative" treatment.

GeorgiaMom

[cherylplinder]

Georgiamom,
There can be a lot of variance in the measurement of a curve, depending on the vertebrae chosen, time of day of the x-ray, and person measuring the curve, even when 2 docs are reading the same x-ray.
I am excited about your results. You may find your next measurement is much better than the first. There usually seems to be significant improvement at the 4 to 6 week check-up. A mesurement of 15 is great, either way.
I am so happy for you!

[Celia]

Melissa!!!!!

I just got your family Christmas card in the mail ~~~ Your family is *so* beautiful!! Is Nicole the one in the pink ?

[christine2]

Melissa

Our next appt is not till March!!

Christine

[Allegra]

eyes, ears, and back

ok I've been keeping up with the conversation but I haven't said anything yet. I totally agree with scoliosis relating to the ears and eyes and making you stand off balance or just being off balance. I was wondering this: I have had many ear infections throughtout my life so far, and I was wondering if any of you thought that could lead to me being off balance. Then it would lead to me possibly having scoliosis. I would really like to hear your opinions if you would like to offer them.

Thank you,
Allegra