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Originally posted by LindaRacine View PostDid pigs start flying. (Thought for certain they must, as Sharon and BalletMom have agreed on something.)Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
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Good luck tomorrow
Hi Brooke,
I hope your daughter's x-ray tomorrow goes well although it sounds like you are prepared for whatever the numbers are.
Chrismamandcrm
G diagnosed 6/08 at almost 7 with 25*
Providence night brace, increased to 35*
Rigo-Cheneau brace full-time 12/08-4/10
14* at 10/09 OOB x-ray
11* at 4/10 OOB x-ray
Wearing R-C part-time since 4/10
latest OOB xray 5/14 13*
currently going on 13 yrs old
I no longer participate in this forum though I will update signature from time to time with status
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Originally posted by hdugger View PostFor scoliosis, to the best of my knowledge, *nothing* is based on good science. Not the surgical treatment, not the bracing, not chiropracters, not exercise . . . nothing. It's all just muddling through. We try something - if it seems to work, we go on doing it. We tinker a little and make slight improvements. And, so it goes. Rinse and repeat.
So, I'm voting for muddling through. Without it - if we instead waited for the results of pure, good science - we'd have absolutely nothing to offer those with scoliosis.
You hit the nail right on the head in my book except that I do think the surgery is based on good science. But I will do everything in my power to try to keep my kid from needing it. It would be nice if someone somewhere would do a study of bracing, and any other remotely promising therapies, in JIS patients (whom I suspect may respond very differently to treatment than AIS patients) but I'm not waiting around for it.Last edited by mamandcrm; 11-09-2009, 05:10 PM.mamandcrm
G diagnosed 6/08 at almost 7 with 25*
Providence night brace, increased to 35*
Rigo-Cheneau brace full-time 12/08-4/10
14* at 10/09 OOB x-ray
11* at 4/10 OOB x-ray
Wearing R-C part-time since 4/10
latest OOB xray 5/14 13*
currently going on 13 yrs old
I no longer participate in this forum though I will update signature from time to time with status
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Alternatives were tried for centuries before surgery
Read all the historical info I posted in the previous 2 posts today. That will show all the alternatives tried over the years before surgery was even considered.Original scoliosis surgery 1956 T-4 to L-2 ~100 degree thoracic (triple)curves at age 14. NO hardware-lost correction.
Anterior/posterior revision T-4 to Sacrum in 2002, age 60, by Dr. Boachie-Adjei @Hospital for Special Surgery, NY = 50% correction
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Originally posted by concerned dad View PostOne more click and I become
Reverand Concerned Dad
Thankfully, the situation isnt that bad for Chiropractors.
Regarding chiropractors in the US ...
Education Requirements
From the American Chiropractic Association
http://www.acatoday.org/content_css.cfm?CID=746
Educational requirements for doctors of chiropractic are among the most stringent of any of the health care professions.
The typical applicant at a chiropractic college has already acquired nearly four years of pre-medical undergraduate college education, including courses in biology, inorganic and organic chemistry, physics, psychology and related lab work. Once accepted into an accredited chiropractic college, the requirements become even more demanding — four to five academic years of professional study are the standard. Because of the hands-on nature of chiropractic, and the intricate adjusting techniques, a significant portion of time is spent in clinical training.
Doctors of chiropractic — who are licensed to practice in all 50 states, the District of Columbia, and in many nations around the world — undergo a rigorous education in the healing sciences, similar to that of medical doctors. In some areas, such as anatomy, physiology, rehabilitation, nutrition and public health, they receive more intensive education than their MD counterparts.
Like other primary health care doctors, chiropractic students spend a significant portion of their curriculum studying clinical subjects related to evaluating and caring for patients. Typically, as part of their professional training, they must complete a minimum of a one-year clinical-based program dealing with actual patient care. In total, the curriculum includes a minimum of 4,200 hours of classroom, laboratory and clinical experience. The course of study is approved by an accrediting agency which is fully recognized by the U.S. Department of Education. This has been the case for more than 25 years.
This extensive education prepares doctors of chiropractic to diagnose health care problems, treat the problems when they are within their scope of practice and refer patients to other health care practitioners when appropriate.
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Originally posted by Karen Ocker View PostRead all the historical info I posted in the previous 2 posts today. That will show all the alternatives tried over the years before surgery was even considered.
Of course conservative treatments have been around for ever.
Of course people will continue to hope that one day one will work.
Of course that might happen.
But how likely is that looking given the history?
If a conservative treatment is ever shown to be effective, I predict it will not come from among the present choices.Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
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Chiropractic Admission Standands Lowest among Health Professionals
Chiropractic Admission Standands Lowest among Health Professionals
http://www.chirobase.org/03Edu/adm.html
A survey comparing U.S. chiropractic colleges with five other types of professional schools has found that chiropractic schools had the lowest standards. Publications and telephone inquiries were used to compile information on (a) the percentage of the previous year's entering class with a bachelor's degree, (a) the minimum grade point average (GPA) required for admission, and (c) the average GPA of the previous year's enrollees. The researchers noted that although the degree of undergraduate success may reflect the potential for professional success, further research would be needed to confirm this. The study found:
--------------------
So. Less than half have a college degree, and the average minimum GPA to get into a chiro college is... wait for it... 2.38. The average GPA of enrollees is 2.90.
In contrast, more than 99% of med school folks have a college degree and the average minimum GPA to get in is 3.16. The average GPA of enrollees is 3.56.
I think my two almost 15 y.o.s olds could gain admittance to chiro college without a high school diploma.Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
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Originally posted by mamamax View PostYou had me laughing on that one CD :-) Did you know that if you do decide to do this, you will be able to legally marry folks - and of course, we will all be calling you for counseling!
Regarding chiropractors in the US ...
Education Requirements
From the American Chiropractic Association
http://www.acatoday.org/content_css.cfm?CID=746
Educational requirements for doctors of chiropractic are among the most stringent of any of the health care professions.
The typical applicant at a chiropractic college has already acquired nearly four years of pre-medical undergraduate college education, including courses in biology, inorganic and organic chemistry, physics, psychology and related lab work. Once accepted into an accredited chiropractic college, the requirements become even more demanding — four to five academic years of professional study are the standard. Because of the hands-on nature of chiropractic, and the intricate adjusting techniques, a significant portion of time is spent in clinical training.
Doctors of chiropractic — who are licensed to practice in all 50 states, the District of Columbia, and in many nations around the world — undergo a rigorous education in the healing sciences, similar to that of medical doctors. In some areas, such as anatomy, physiology, rehabilitation, nutrition and public health, they receive more intensive education than their MD counterparts.
Like other primary health care doctors, chiropractic students spend a significant portion of their curriculum studying clinical subjects related to evaluating and caring for patients. Typically, as part of their professional training, they must complete a minimum of a one-year clinical-based program dealing with actual patient care. In total, the curriculum includes a minimum of 4,200 hours of classroom, laboratory and clinical experience. The course of study is approved by an accrediting agency which is fully recognized by the U.S. Department of Education. This has been the case for more than 25 years.
This extensive education prepares doctors of chiropractic to diagnose health care problems, treat the problems when they are within their scope of practice and refer patients to other health care practitioners when appropriate.Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
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The article above regarding Chiropractic standards has not been updated since 1999. The article also fails to mention specifically where the information in it was obtained from. Apparently the article is based on someone's "survey", parameters of which are also not defined. Not exactly the kind of article I would use as a reference in a college paper - but hey, it works for someone with an agenda!
As for calling the American Chiropractic Association a bunch of liars based upon the information they post on their web page - compared to someone's undefined survey - well, lets just say I'm not convinced.
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When you post self-serving biased material from chiropractors, you should expect to be called on it.
I think we all know which way the wind is blowing on chiro versus medical school.Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
Comment
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Oh my gosh Sharon. Well, if you post outdated information (over a decade old) gathered through a very poorly defined survey - then you should expect to be called on that!
People well understand the difference in professions - that is not the issue.Last edited by mamamax; 11-10-2009, 05:58 AM.
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Perhaps people who usually reside in the US understand the difference between the professions, but coming from outside, it is really difficult to work out.
As I've said before, here in the UK chiropractors are not allowed to refer to themselves as "Doctors" unless they qualify that at all times by explicitly stating that they are chiropractors. They can't say "Hello, I'm a Doctor, I can help you" - they would have to say "Hello, I'm a Doctor of Chiropractic, I can help you". They also have to make it quite clear that they are not a registered medical practitioner.
There may be many people who have come to the US from outside, who might believe a chiropractor who said "Your son's scoliosis is very severe and it is important that he is seen by one of the very best doctors. Come to our clinic, some of the most experienced scoliosis doctors in the world work there!". NB this is some advice I have seen given by a CLEAR Institute chiro to the parents of a pre-teen boy on an internet forum; those parents could have been anywhere in the world, and wouldn't necessarily know that the person giving them advice wasn't a medically qualified doctor.
I just think it would be really helpful if the distinction between Chiropractor and MD was legally enforced to be as clear as it is in the UK.
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Hi Toni ~
Yes, I do think that most people in the US understand the difference in professions and titles. I do not know enough about the situation you speak of with Clear to comment on it. But your post, and the topic finds me pondering a few things.
As you probably know, my treatment providers are chiropractors who specialize only in scoliosis treatment, are Spinecor and Schroth certified (certified to a level where they are proficient to apply the techniques unsupervised), they have trained also with the Canadian MDs (surgeons) who invented the brace, continue to work closely with them - conduct research studies on a continuing basis, have participated in SOSORT presentations, published work in the Scoliosis journal - and teach at the University level. As members of the American Chiropractic Association, they make their profession/title quite obvious on their web page.
Over the last 40 years I have sought out the services of a chiropractor from time to time in seeking pain relief. I've never personally experienced one of them misrepresenting their profession or title. However - some have, and that is deplorable. Mis-representation happens many places both within and without all the many different medical professions - and when that happens there are legal steps here in the US that one can and should take. I also think it is important not to deem an entire profession corrupt due to the unethical practices of a few.
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