Just because science is unbiased (although I disagree here), does not mean favoring it isn't. But,we can agree to disagree on this too.
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I love science, but it's really an inadequate tool for complex issues. If you have a simple issue with a single cause, science is your tool. If you have a complex issue with multiple influencing factors, science is going to have a very hard time getting to the bottom of the problem.
Originally posted by Pooka1 View PostOh really? What is better than the scientific method in rooting out bias and gaining REAL knowledge?
Nothing.
Science is the only game out there that is self-correcting and where you can actually get points for proving YOURSELF wrong.
It is truly the only game in town for getting to the bottom of anything. This is not news.
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Originally posted by hdugger View PostI love science, but it's really an inadequate tool for complex issues. If you have a simple issue with a single cause, science is your tool. If you have a complex issue with multiple influencing factors, science is going to have a very hard time getting to the bottom of the problem.
But assuming you are correct, name anything better.Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
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Originally posted by bas2101 View PostJust because science is unbiased (although I disagree here), does not mean favoring it isn't. But,we can agree to disagree on this too.
Name something, anything, that is better.Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
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For scoliosis, to the best of my knowledge, *nothing* is based on good science. Not the surgical treatment, not the bracing, not chiropracters, not exercise . . . nothing. It's all just muddling through. We try something - if it seems to work, we go on doing it. We tinker a little and make slight improvements. And, so it goes. Rinse and repeat.
So, I'm voting for muddling through. Without it - if we instead waited for the results of pure, good science - we'd have absolutely nothing to offer those with scoliosis.
Originally posted by Pooka1 View PostI disagree in principle and practice.
But assuming you are correct, name anything better.
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Did pigs start flying. (Thought for certain they must, as Sharon and BalletMom have agreed on something.)
Arthur Copes was an unlicensed orthotist, not a chiropractor.
--LindaNever argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
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Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation
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Originally posted by hdugger View PostFor scoliosis, to the best of my knowledge, *nothing* is based on good science. Not the surgical treatment, not the bracing, not chiropracters, not exercise . . . nothing. It's all just muddling through. We try something - if it seems to work, we go on doing it. We tinker a little and make slight improvements. And, so it goes. Rinse and repeat.
So, I'm voting for muddling through. Without it - if we instead waited for the results of pure, good science - we'd have absolutely nothing to offer those with scoliosis.
That they are forced to muddle through doesn't mean science isn't the gold standard nor that it wouldn't be best if they could use the scientific method. Nobody is going to choose anecdote if they can test hypotheses adequately.Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
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Originally posted by LindaRacine View Post
Arthur Copes was an unlicensed orthotist, not a chiropractor.
--Linda
Some chiropractors have gone on to specialize, and dedicate their practice to scoliosis treatment, trained with the inventors of the Spinecor brace (and continue to work closely with them), achieved certification to treat (unsupervised), document their results and publish them in the Scoliosis Journal, prepare SOSORT presentations, and have traveled to Germany several times in order to obtain Schroth certification.
Certification to treat with Spinecore on an unsupervised basis is, a big big thing. And something bty - that Drs Weiss and Wong did not have when they conducted their less than positive studies. Neither to this date, are certified by the manufacturer to treat on an unsupervised basis - that information can be found at the manufacturer's web site. Just an FYI for those who rely heavily on studies ;-)
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To be honest, if someone says "Hi, I'm a Doctor, I can treat your medical condition" then I do assume they mean they are a medically qualified doctor.
And if someone says "Come to our clinic, we have some of the most experienced scoliosis doctors in the world working there", I assume they mean they are medically qualified doctors too.
I think that it is deliberately misleading not to state that they are chiropractors. My best friend is a Doctor of Classics, and he knows a lot about what it's like to live with scoliosis. Would he be misleading anyone if he said to them "hello, I'm a doctor and I have a lot of experience with scoliosis"?Last edited by tonibunny; 11-09-2009, 10:09 AM.
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One more click and I become
Reverand Concerned Dad
Thankfully, the situation isnt that bad for Chiropractors.
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Originally posted by bas2101 View PostThe gold standard? I mentioned earlier in the thread, that scoliosis should treated with an integrated approach between many physicians, including the surgeon, if need be. Since scoliois affects many systems of the body-nervous, skeletal, muscular, immune, respiratory, endocrine (potentially), and also connective tissue, lungs, heart, genes, and so on, there should as many specialists, treating a patient in tandem. Including orthorist & PT if need be.
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Don't get caught up in the arguement
Do what works for you even if it means doing what ever you have to, to find what you need. Don't discount any type of treatment until you find your answer. And don't listen to some of the posters here that like to argue over scraps of data. Just listen to your gut feeling and don't give up. There are answers out there and they might come from "mainstream" or "alternative" methods, who cares, they are out there if you look hard enough and keep an open mind.
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Hi Brooke
as for integrated approach with different specialists working together...in medicine, i have found that is rare...when lyme patients were deathly sick with orthopedic, neurological & all kinds of other problems, as lyme is a multi-systemic disease, they didnt cooperate or work together...why would they do so for scoliosis? i dont know why, but medical doctors seem to rarely coordinate treatment between specialties..that has been my experience, anyway...
jess
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History of scoliosis treatment in pictures-from ancient times
Attempts at scoliosis treatment-all non-surgical until the 1900's. Surgery tried because of their failures out of desperation.
http://drlloydhey.blogspot.com/2008/...t-3000-bc.htmlOriginal scoliosis surgery 1956 T-4 to L-2 ~100 degree thoracic (triple)curves at age 14. NO hardware-lost correction.
Anterior/posterior revision T-4 to Sacrum in 2002, age 60, by Dr. Boachie-Adjei @Hospital for Special Surgery, NY = 50% correction
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Last edited by Karen Ocker; 11-09-2009, 02:59 PM.Original scoliosis surgery 1956 T-4 to L-2 ~100 degree thoracic (triple)curves at age 14. NO hardware-lost correction.
Anterior/posterior revision T-4 to Sacrum in 2002, age 60, by Dr. Boachie-Adjei @Hospital for Special Surgery, NY = 50% correction
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