Originally posted by rohrer01
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Stop trying to convince that official western medical community is the only option..
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Originally posted by mariaf View PostVery well put.
That's a great explanation of why a single anecdotal success story (or even a few) is not evidence that a particular treatment works.
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Originally posted by Pooka1 View Post
The US and some other countries have a demonstrably abysmal record on teaching scientific thinking.
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Originally posted by rohrer01 View PostFlerc,
I think I understand where you are coming from.
Originally posted by rohrer01 View PostUnfortunately, the kind of practitioners that you often talk about do not want to be a part of the scientific community and do not publish their findings. I have heard only bad things about CLEAR. Chiros try to be a part of the scientific community and they do have their place for some things. But I honestly don't think that their training "teaches" them how to keep track of and publish accurate and meaningful data.
Originally posted by rohrer01 View PostIt's only logical to follow the advice of people that have tested things over and over and have accurate data to show how things work.
Originally posted by rohrer01 View PostIn any "treatment" you are going to get cases that look miraculous or curative. I can say, because my son had no treatment and his scoliosis resolved on its own, that "no treatment" is the best course for everyone. That would be a false statement even though it appeared to cure my son. The fact is, no matter what I had done with his treatment, he would have probably been "cured" because he had a case of self-resolving JIS. So his case would have been a success story for whichever practitioner I took him to. So, yes, there will be success stories for any kind of treatment.
Originally posted by rohrer01 View PostThat doesn't mean that it was that particular treatment that worked
Originally posted by rohrer01 View PostUNLESS it could be repeated over and over with predictable results.
Originally posted by rohrer01 View PostI'm not saying that no one should try anything else and go straight to surgery.
You know some people are saying that, the first step is convincing that never worked in just only one case.
Originally posted by rohrer01 View PostBut there are a lot of scam artists out there that feed off of and get rich from the fears of others. Buyer beware.
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You know, all the faulty, anti-scientific thinking out there can be very amusing when it comes to the age of the earth, the shape of the earth, the factuality of evolution, etc. etc. etc. But those same faulty thought patterns are applied by adults to either themselves or their children it suddenly isn't funny any more. It suddenly matters whether or not you are evidence-based. If you aren't evidence-driven, it just all runs together.
The US and some other countries have a demonstrably abysmal record on teaching scientific thinking. The rubber is hitting the road when some serious medical condition pops up. It scares me.
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Originally posted by rohrer01 View PostI can say, because my son had no treatment and his scoliosis resolved on its own, that "no treatment" is the best course for everyone. That would be a false statement even though it appeared to cure my son. The fact is, no matter what I had done with his treatment, he would have probably been "cured" because he had a case of self-resolving JIS. So his case would have been a success story for whichever practitioner I took him to. So, yes, there will be success stories for any kind of treatment. That doesn't mean that it was that particular treatment that worked UNLESS it could be repeated over and over with predictable results.
That's a great explanation of why a single anecdotal success story (or even a few) is not evidence that a particular treatment works.
Leave a comment:
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Flerc,
I think I understand where you are coming from. Unfortunately, the kind of practitioners that you often talk about do not want to be a part of the scientific community and do not publish their findings. I have heard only bad things about CLEAR. Chiros try to be a part of the scientific community and they do have their place for some things. But I honestly don't think that their training "teaches" them how to keep track of and publish accurate and meaningful data.
It's only logical to follow the advice of people that have tested things over and over and have accurate data to show how things work. In any "treatment" you are going to get cases that look miraculous or curative. I can say, because my son had no treatment and his scoliosis resolved on its own, that "no treatment" is the best course for everyone. That would be a false statement even though it appeared to cure my son. The fact is, no matter what I had done with his treatment, he would have probably been "cured" because he had a case of self-resolving JIS. So his case would have been a success story for whichever practitioner I took him to. So, yes, there will be success stories for any kind of treatment. That doesn't mean that it was that particular treatment that worked UNLESS it could be repeated over and over with predictable results.
I'm not saying that no one should try anything else and go straight to surgery. But there are a lot of scam artists out there that feed off of and get rich from the fears of others. Buyer beware.
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Unfortuantely there are people in the world assuming that all thinking different has stupid behaviours.. like wanting to fight or wanting to hear what they wants instead of the true.
Good disciples, but far the teacher yet..
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Originally posted by jrnyc View Posti know i am not the only one on forum who appreciates the knowledge you contribute...jess
I, too, always appreciate Sharon's knowledge and her willingness to state the facts, even knowing sometimes that what she says might not be what everyone wants to hear and that she may take heat for it. (One of my favorite sayings is "the world has enough YES people").
I believe her heart is in the right place, wanting what is best for these children and in some cases, saving their parents from being taken in financially, only to be heartbroken later on when these false claims are shown to be just that.
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Sharon...thank you for your intelligent comments and your knowledge and information...science will always move forward
with facts....
i know i am not the only one on forum who appreciates the knowledge
you contribute...
and i will not debate that with anyone on forum or elsewhere...
i have more important things to do than waste my time with those
debates!
jess
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Originally posted by Pooka1 View PostApparently you do.
Originally posted by Pooka1 View PostYou've given me lots of advice lately. How's that going? Do you think it's working or what?
No I don't think that, the last advice was about to understand what a word means before using it and seems you are not following it.Last edited by flerc; 02-22-2013, 10:43 AM.
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Stop trying to convince that official western medical community is the only option..
.. and that all the other health professionals are criminals, non surgical treatments donīt works, cannot helps noone to avoid surgery, people believing in them are desperate/stupid.. and as I said you hereOriginally posted by flerc View PostNot use this thread to do your work (your reason to be here). Try to be respectful. Tkare has a serious problem and need this thread for help. She not needs to be convinced for you about anything.
I replied here
Certainly is very difficult for me to discuss with people without a logic/rational mind, but I’ll do another effort again.. I hope it will be the last; I have not time to waste as I feel I’m doing and ever did discussing about this with you.
I’m not absolutely sure about what ‘Evidence’ means for you.
'Evidence' for me is a proof or something showing a fact. A fact is something that happened or is happening or will happens. A statement asserting a fact is true.
So, if you are saying that There is no evidence any conservative treatment has prevented any surgery, you should to prove that NEVER worked in any case in the world or you should to prove that cannot works in just only one case, that is, giving a logical demonstration about it. You never did that as I know.
Do you are confusing ‘evidence’ with well known and published cases? It will not surprise me, because is simple for people without a mathematical background to confuse a proof with only clues. If you really are honest in all what you say, this is what surely is happening with you.
But who knows? If this is the case.. Prove it! Prove me that real cases and well known/published cases are the same. But please, try to know first what ‘prove’ really means.
Originally posted by Pooka1 View PostConvincing is the worst!Last edited by flerc; 02-27-2013, 10:03 AM.Tags: None
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