You are trying to argue that "all" does not mean "all." You will never succeed at this hopeless endeavor.
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A few comments on trunk rotational strength training
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Originally posted by Pooka1 View PostYes they are. Here is a direct quote:
AVOID ALL ROTATIONS OF THE SHOULDER GIRDLE AND RIB CAGE AGAINST THE PELVIC GIRDLE
(emphasis added to draw your attention to the relevant word)
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Originally posted by mamamaxI think that is taking one sentence out of context - and not applying it to the entire article.
Why are you avoiding the obvious? What's the problem with accepting that Schroth and Torso Rotation are at complete odds? Why is that impossible for you to accept? I don't get it.Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
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Originally posted by Pooka1 View PostWhy are you avoiding the obvious? What's the problem with accepting that Schroth and Torso Rotation are at complete odds? Why is that impossible for you to accept? I don't get it.
They site an example of what they are talking about. The example is: of a long sweeping rotation. That is what they are talking about.
An exaggerated movement.
That's how I read it anyway - and it makes sense to me, especially in light of what my surgeon also discussed with me.
Would be nice if we could get a Physical Therapist to comment on this.
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Originally posted by mamamax View PostThey site an example of what they are talking about. The example is: of a long sweeping rotation. That is what they are talking about.
An exaggerated movement.
That's how I read it anyway - and it makes sense to me, especially in light of what my surgeon also discussed with me.
Would be nice if we could get a Physical Therapist to comment on this.
There is no difference whatsoever between the examples cites, the pictures shown, and torso rotation in a med-ex machine. The common denominator is opposite movement of the shoulders with respect to the pelvis about a central vertical axis.
As with everything, boil it down. We could cut out 90% of our less productive exchanges if you would do this one thing.Last edited by Pooka1; 01-31-2010, 07:58 PM.Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
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Originally posted by Pooka1 View PostIt's important to read what is actually there. They said "ALL." Perhaps we can agree that "all" includes "short," yes?
There is no difference whatsoever between the examples cites, the pictures shown, and torso rotation in a med-ex machine. The common denominator is opposite movement of the shoulders with respect to the pelvis about a central axis.
As with everything, boil it down. We could cut out 90% of our less productive exchanges if you would do this one thing.
The word ALL bty - appears as an instruction regarding which yoga poses not to do.
You see no difference between the yoga pose and the MedX rotation?
I do. One (yoga) is an exaggeration of the movement and the other (MedX) is not an exaggerated movement.
We may just have to agree to disagree on this one and hope that someone with more knowledge than either of us (like a Physical Therapist) stops by to make more sense of it all.
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Originally posted by mamamax View PostYou see no difference between the yoga pose and the MedX rotation?
...
...Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
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Originally posted by mamamax View PostThen sit in a chair and rotate the torso say 1 to 2 inches back and forth in either direction.
I suggest NOBODY who is doing torso rotation would consider "1 to 2 inches back and forth in either direction" to be torso rotation PT.Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
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1-2" rotations could be considered a rotational exercise, especially in a rehabilitation situation.
The little girl in the video is doing more than that: http://www.wcsh6.com/news/health/sto...=92954&catid=8
And far less (as I see it) than in the yoga pose.
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Originally posted by mamamax View Post[COLOR="Navy"]1-2" rotations could be considered a rotational exercise, especially in a rehabilitation situation.
And far less (as I see it) than in the yoga pose.Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
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MedX torso rotation--more than a few inches!
I have only been loosely following this thread, but I want to shed some light on the above argument by clarifying the MedX exercise above with some facts.
I swim regularly at an athletic club, and I recently decided to add in some weight training on resistance machines. I received an hour of training on the proper use of the machines with a personal trainer last week. Just so happens my club has a MedX Rotary Torso Machine. It says right on it in large letters, and I was also told by the trainer, that "the largest range of motion that doesn't result in pain" is the recommended method of performing the exercise. When I was shown the exercise, it was demonstrated to sit with one's hips and knees pointing straight forward, and the starting position is with the shoulders and torso facing 90 degrees to (whichever) side, then making what I would call large sweeping motions to the 90-degree position (in the opposite direction) of the shoulders in relation to the pelvis. This range of motion is FAR more than "just a few inches" in either direction. And BTW, I too have seen the video of the little girl, and she is moving way more than a few inches in eather direction.Gayle, age 50
Oct 2010 fusion T8-sacrum w/ pelvic fixation
Feb 2012 lumbar revision for broken rods @ L2-3-4
Sept 2015 major lumbar A/P revision for broken rods @ L5-S1
mom of Leah, 15 y/o, Diagnosed '08 with 26* T JIS (age 6)
2010 VBS Dr Luhmann Shriners St Louis
2017 curves stable/skeletely mature
also mom of Torrey, 12 y/o son, 16* T, stable
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Thanks for that, Gayle. Facts are always in order.
Considering even the minuscule amount of research there is on torso rotation, I don't think Schroth has a leg to stand on in suggesting it should be avoided. That is to say, I think we know enough to say it doesn't exacerbate curves.Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
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range of motion
For what it's worth this is from the original study on torso rotation by Dr. Vert Mooney.
The Role of Measured Resistance Exercises in Adolescent Scoliosis
To allow standardized evaluation for this study, torso rotation was restricted to 36 degrees in each direction.
To be honest I didn't realize until just now that they were using such small movements for this type of PT.
Maybe Mooney used 36 degrees because from a purely mechanical standpoint it made sense. His goal was to build symmetric muscle mass and small turns can accomplish that. Furthermore if the spine is already twisted too far in one direction why press your luck and rotate it even further?Last edited by Dingo; 01-31-2010, 10:14 PM.
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MedX available
Leahdragonfly
Just so happens my club has a MedX Rotary Torso Machine.
Why not have your daughter try it for 6 or 8 weeks and see if there is any difference? It's only twice per week, a few minutes each time. I'm sure Dr. McIntire would give you some pointers. Worst case scenario it will make no difference at all.
After Scott started doing my best at home "imitation" of the MedX torso rotation movement my wife and I noticed a difference in about a month.Last edited by Dingo; 02-01-2010, 08:48 AM.
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