Originally posted by Ballet Mom
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
Advanced Maternal Age Associated with AIS?
Collapse
X
-
Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
-
Originally posted by hdugger View PostI think much of the environmental interest is in things which don't affect genes.
"It's all genetic."Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
Comment
-
Rohrer01
Anything that causes damage to a gamete (sex cell) can cause a genetic disease. A couple of examples are radiation and chemical toxins, whether exposure comes accidentally or by consumption of something or smoking or whatever.
My beef is that some people believe that Scoliosis is spread through heredity like Sickle Cell Anemia or Cystic Fibrosis. That's not going to be the case. No childhood genetic disease is as common as Scoliosis. I am confident that scientists will determine that environmental damage is the cause of Scoliosis like it is for nearly all childhood disease. It's possible that genes may play a role in susceptability to this damage or the disease process that is set in motion after the damage occurs.
You mentioned that your family has several cases of Scoliosis. Have you ever wondered how a gene that made so many children sick in one family could survive? If every few generations your extended family produced just 1 less child compared to a control family that gene would quickly become rare. And yet Scoliosis is anything but rare.
1 child in 100,000 - could easily be genetic
1 child in 10,000 - most genetic disease aren't more common than this
1 child in 1,000 - theoretically possible to be genetic but doubtful
1 child in 100 - not genetic
Type 1 Diabetes runs in families just like Scoliosis. If my memory serves me correct if a parent has Type 1 his/her child has about a 1 in 3 chance to get Type 1. But childhood Diabetes is not a genetic disorder and not too many generations ago it was a fatal condition. Recent research suggests it's being triggered by a common virus that is spread orally. Genes may play a role in susceptability to the virus or the damage it causes.
Study Of Human Pancreases Links Virus To Cause Of Type 1 DiabetesLast edited by Dingo; 02-02-2011, 09:13 AM.
Comment
-
We have seen the folkscience claim that scoliosis is too prevalent to be a genetic disease. I have countered that argument already with other reasoning but here is another stab at it.
Here is a list of genetic diseases that have a similar prevalence rate as scoliosis, some many-fold more prevalent than scoliosis.
Scoliosis: ~2 to 4 % worldwide
Otosclerosis: As many as 10% of Caucasians have the condition but most do not get symptoms; about 1 in 100 cases actually lose hearing from otosclerosis
Sickle Cell Anemia: Estimated 1 per 1,000. Hispanic Americans are affected by sickle cell disease in the US
Deuteranopia: About 1% of white males
Protanopia: About 1% of white males
Red-green color blindness: About 10% of males
Of course there are many genetic diseases that are far rarer due to their virulence. Scoliosis, where only about 1 in a 1,000 require fusion and some of these people never get fusion and still live long enough to reproduce, is obviously nowhere near as virulent as the rare genetic disorders. That accounts for the observed incidence rate of 2-4% worldwide; no need for a germ theory of scoliosis.
Here is a short explanation of how prevalence, incidence, etc. have specific meanings...
http://www.bmj.com/epidem/epid.2.html
I think I have been using terms wrongly at times and would need to study this if I continue these ridiculous exchanges.
Last, science advances by trying to disprove false claims. Folkscience "advances" by trying to prove false and, by chance alone, true claims.Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
Comment
-
Folk biology
Some common folk biology modes of thought on this and other threads:
1. Genetic etiology is less tractable than germ theory etiology.
2. As a result of #1, a denial that researchers are and have been largely focussed on genetic etiology to inlcude straight (albeit complex) genetic inheritance and other genetic modes as mentioned by rohrer. I have to wonder if there is a single instance of any researcher investigating "environmental" in the folk biology sense of meaning germ theory. I haven't seen it. I suggest there is too much genetic evidence already on the table (Scoliscore being somewhat of a nail in that coffin perhaps)to veer away from that to complete germ theory.
3. Genetic eitiology requires non-conservative treatments whereas "environmental" etiology in the lay meaning of germ theory allowing for conservative treatments.
4. Equating deadly childhood genetic diseases with ones like scoliosis wherein the vast majority of people need no treeatment and indeed many don't even know they have it. It could not be more apples and oranges if you tried.
5. Lay people can save experienced researchers decades of "wasted" research because lay people are smarter and more informed than researchers.
6. Claiming that effective conservative options exist perforce and absent evidence.Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
Comment
-
For Pooka1 or anybody else who believes that disease hits all people around the world equally and at an unvarying rate because humans are homogenous... (facepalm)
Disease doesn't hit people at the same rate even inside of a nation's borders.
Race Gap Narrows for Some Cancers in African-Americans; Continues to Increase for Others
Comment
-
Originally posted by Dingo View PostFor Pooka1 or anybody else who believes that disease hits all people around the world equally and at an unvarying rate because humans are homogenous... (facepalm)
Disease doesn't hit people at the same rate even inside of a nation's borders.
Race Gap Narrows for Some Cancers in African-Americans; Continues to Increase for OthersSharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
Comment
-
Originally posted by Dingo View PostFor Pooka1 or anybody else who believes that disease hits all people around the world equally and at an unvarying rate because humans are homogenous... (facepalm)Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
Comment
-
I agree with hdugger, this is exceedingly boring.
The fact of the matter is, scientists are wrong a lot of the time even when they join alpha-packs to try to force other scientists into submission, which unfortunately seems to be increasingly common here in the US.
There are probably various modes of developing scoliosis influenced by varying genetic predispostions as shown in the statement that started this thread. But amazingly, even that very rational statement by neurosurgeons and orthopedic surgeons is enough to throw certain ideological people into a tizzy.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Ballet Mom View PostI agree with hdugger, this is exceedingly boring.
The fact of the matter is, scientists are wrong a lot of the time even when they join alpha-packs to try to force other scientists into submission, which unfortunately seems to be increasingly common here in the US.
There are probably various modes of developing scoliosis influenced by varying genetic predispostions as shown in the statement that started this thread. But amazingly, even that very rational statement by neurosurgeons and orthopedic surgeons is enough to throw certain ideological people into a tizzy.
I do have considerable issue with folk biology claims.
Meta comment - You, hdugger and Dingo are clearly capable of very ordered, very scientific, very logical thought on these issues. I don't understand why it is blocked so often.Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
Comment
-
Originally posted by Ballet Mom View PostI agree with hdugger, this is exceedingly boring.
The fact of the matter is, scientists are wrong a lot of the time even when they join alpha-packs to try to force other scientists into submission, which unfortunately seems to be increasingly common here in the US.
As for the state of medicine and/or scienftific research in the US (which, of course, are closely related), I'll take our doctors and medical researchers any day of the year over that of most other countries. Just my opinion of course.mariaf305@yahoo.com
Mom to David, age 17, braced June 2000 to March 2004
Vertebral Body Stapling 3/10/04 for 40 degree curve (currently mid 20's)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/ScoliosisTethering/
http://pediatricspinefoundation.org/
Comment
-
I really don't have any more to add. When there is a strongly entrenched belief system involved it is pointless to argue or even give the facts (not implying that all belief systems are wrong, so don't even start that argument). I know there are some on here that can weigh through the mud-slinging and come to logical conclusions. However, I hope some of you reading this thread are at least informed as to where some of us are coming from. You can read this same line of reasoning on multiple threads on this forum, unfortunately. For me, personally, the more tools I have available to me in helping to determine treatment for a loved one, the better. Thankfully my daughter didn't progress - at least to my knowledge. I wish I had Scoliscore available to me because I think it would affect her treatment to this day. If we didn't believe, based on hard evidence, that contributing our DNA to the developers of Scoliscore would benefit children and their terrified parents, my parents and I wouldn't have given it. My parents only wished they had Scoliscore available when I was a child - they were terrified just like all the rest of you parents out there. Just remember, YOU are the parents and can still choose what treatments you put your children through, despite what the Scoliscore test says. It's just a tool. (I mentioned that already)Be happy!
We don't know what tomorrow brings,
but we are alive today!
Comment
-
Originally posted by Dingo View Post
1 child in 100,000 - could easily be genetic
1 child in 10,000 - most genetic disease aren't more common than this
1 child in 1,000 - theoretically possible to be genetic but doubtful
1 child in 100 - not genetic
I'd also have to think about how having scoliosis reduces the rate of childbirth. Isn't the rate of scoliosis curves so severe that they'd preclude having children pretty rare? As long as people are healthy enough during their child-bearing years, that's not really going to affect the rate at which it's inherited.
Comment
-
Originally posted by rohrer01 View PostFor me, personally, the more tools I have available to me in helping to determine treatment for a loved one, the better.Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
Comment
-
Sorry, Pooka1. I didn't know what Neo-Luddism was so I looked it up. So for the rest of you out there that are wondering, this is what Wikipedia said:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Neo-Luddism is a personal philosophy against modern technology.[1] Its name is based on the historical legacy of the British Luddites which were active between 1811 and 1816.[1] Neo-luddism includes the critical examination of the effects technology has on individuals and communities.[2]Be happy!
We don't know what tomorrow brings,
but we are alive today!
Comment
Comment