Advanced Maternal Age Associated with AIS?

[Ballet Mom]

All AIS is hereditary. Are you saying 2/3 of the cases are spontaneous mutations with no relative with scoliosis? That necessarily follows from your interpretation I think. I'd need to see a reference on that. Rather there are more references than you can shake a stick at saying (simply) AIS is polygenetic and multifactorial. Thus your interpretation doesn't seem correct.

I'm saying that 2/3 - 3/4 of the cases are from people who know of no other family members with scoliosis in their family tree. Genetics, such as hyper-mobility of the joints, obviously plays a role. That doesn't mean a scoliosis gene is being passed down in non-familial cases of scoliosis. That's why they call it idiopathic.

[Pooka1]

Yes, those scientists are pretty unreliable, especially here in the US where we get to throw out the politically unfavorable studies.

Apparently we should probably stop funding scientists because nothing they do is valid.

Well they can start by not publishing so many uncontrolled studies. That will cut down the nonsense by a mile.

[Pooka1]

Familial scoliosis means that there are other cases of scoliosis in the family tree. Adolescent Idiopathic Scoliosis means they don't know what causes it.

All AIS is hereditary. Are you saying 2/3 of the cases are spontaneous mutations with no relative with scoliosis? That necessarily follows from your interpretation I think. I'd need to see a reference on that. Rather there are more references than you can shake a stick at saying (simply) AIS is polygenetic and multifactorial. Thus your interpretation doesn't seem correct.

[Ballet Mom]

You are assuming "positive family history" = "familial" in the technical sense that researchers use the term. I don't think that is the case. All AIS seems to be considered "familial" per at least some references.

This seems to be a similar problem with "environmental" and "multifactorial."

Those darned, unreliable researchers.

[Ballet Mom]

They may think the studies are valid but most published studies are false FULL STOP.

Yes, those scientists are pretty unreliable, especially here in the US where we get to throw out the politically unfavorable studies.

Apparently we should probably stop funding scientists because nothing they do is valid.

[Pooka1]

How do you come up with that?

You are assuming "positive family history" = "familial" in the technical sense that researchers use the term. I don't think that is the case. All AIS seems to be considered "familial" per at least some references.

This seems to be a similar problem with "environmental" and "multifactorial."

[Ballet Mom]

You posted this...



I think this might be the explanation for that

http://books.google.com/books?id=Ivw...page&q&f=false

It says that there is a family history in about 1/3 of the cases. I don't think that means the other cases with no close relative are not familial but I'm not sure. That wouldn't make sense given that AIS is hereditary.

Familial scoliosis means that there are other cases of scoliosis in the family tree. Adolescent Idiopathic Scoliosis means they don't know what causes it.

[Pooka1]

So apparently the neurosurgeons and orthopedic surgeons of Australia, Britain, Sweden and the United States aren't capable of deciding whether studies are valid, but you are. Interesting.

They may think the studies are valid but most published studies are false FULL STOP.

[Ballet Mom]

The first reference doesn't seem to disagree with all AIS being familial.

How do you come up with that?

[Pooka1]

You posted this...

Adolescent idiopathic scoliosis (IS) is the most common spine deformity arising during childhood, but the etiology of IS remains unknown. A large proportion (75%) of structural scoliosis is clinically classified as idiopathic [1]. Idiopathic scoliosis often appears in several members of the same family, this strongly suggesting a genetic transmission. Clinical studies indicate that approximately 1:4 of the total scoliosis cases and 1:3 of idiopathic scoliosis cases are familial [2].

I think this might be the explanation for that

http://books.google.com/books?id=Ivw...page&q&f=false

It says that there is a family history in about 1/3 of the cases. I don't think that means the other cases with no close relative are not familial but I'm not sure. That wouldn't make sense given that AIS is hereditary.

[jrnyc]

i never said that...
now i remember why i don't respond to your posts...

most educated and intelligent people are capable of deciding for themselves whether or not a study is valid..
i don't worship any researcher or scientist...or their opinions...

just because a study was conducted doesn't make it valid...
there are many flawed studies being pointed to as proving something...
and many unimpressive studies...
and even more studies with small numbers of participants that try to generalize to larger populations...

but people can believe whatever they wish...
"wish" being the key word there

jess

[Pooka1]

The first reference doesn't seem to disagree with all AIS being familial.

I can't find the Weinstein reference in the second one to see what exactly they are talking about but I think the term "familial" may be used differently by different researchers. Some say all AIS is familial so I guess we have to look at the evidence for that being or not not being the case. I can say nobody else appears to reference that Weinstein paper except the paper you cite. I wonder if it is a mistake.

ETA: I found another paper that references Weintstein

[Ballet Mom]

"I read that familial cases are 25% of the AIS cases, so they are actually a subset of the larger scoliosis population. "

Can you post a reference about this? I can't find one making this distinction.

Here:

http://hmg.oxfordjournals.org/conten...mg.ddq571.full

Genetic contributions to AIS have been described for decades (10). About one quarter of AIS patients report a positive family history of disease, and twin studies have consistently supported shared genetic factors in disease (reviewed in 4,5).

Or here:

Adolescent idiopathic scoliosis (IS) is the most common spine deformity arising during childhood, but the etiology of IS remains unknown. A large proportion (75%) of structural scoliosis is clinically classified as idiopathic [1]. Idiopathic scoliosis often appears in several members of the same family, this strongly suggesting a genetic transmission. Clinical studies indicate that approximately 1:4 of the total scoliosis cases and 1:3 of idiopathic scoliosis cases are familial [2].

http://www.scoliosisjournal.com/content/1/1/21

[Ballet Mom]

only if studies are valid are they worthy of attention...

all kinds of studies have been done with faulty methods, or other factors that make
them invalid

studies with small numbers of participants do not mean much to me...regardless of whether i "like" what the studies claim to prove or not...

jess

So apparently the neurosurgeons and orthopedic surgeons of Australia, Britain, Sweden and the United States aren't capable of deciding whether studies are valid, but you are. Interesting.

[Ballet Mom]

The "guilt trip" due to maternal age seems to be a repeating theme on this thread. I don't understand why it would make anyone feel guilty....what could they have done differently?

And if there are a bunch of studies that all show roughly the same thing, it wouldn't be up to people to just discard them because they don't like what they say.

Oh look! I'm talking to myself....must be someone deleted a post for those confused.