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  • #31
    Originally posted by Back-out View Post
    Those of us contemplating this surgery are, ALWAYS deciding to take a major risk. In a sense, it's not merely a crap shoot, but Russian roulette. Perhaps the understood tipping point in undergoing the surgery, is not so much that we're willing to live with any outcome, but that we're no longer willing to live in our present state - least of all, if it's certain to worsen.
    Couldn't agree more.
    Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
    Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Back-out View Post
      Mistakes are mistakes. of course. However, when someone's life and/or quality of life lies in the balance, the highly paid specialist making it, ought IMO be held accountable. I'm very surprised if you are indeed suggesting otherwise.
      The price we'll pay to compensate everyone for every mistake is that no surgeon would be willing to undertake surgery on anyone who presents a complex scenario.

      I think that surgeons who make a lot of mistakes and surgeries where gross errors were committed are an entirely different story.

      --Linda
      Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
      Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

      Comment


      • #33
        Love your initial response, Linda

        I also was told - THERE ARE NO GUARANTEE'S. Additionally my surgeon would not explain what my gait might be like, if I'd feel my iliac screws (I don't) or if I'd gain or lose any more height. All he did was show me X-rays of similar surgeries like mine and even gave me their phone numbers.

        I had a negative experience in anesthesia that eventually meant I received no pain medication during rehab. Take a look at my X-rays and let me know if you think you could white-knuckle that? It was pure hell but I survived. No guarantees; you just have to weigh the potential positive with the negative and certainly do your homework on your surgeon. Interview at least 5 if you can.

        IMG952944-1.jpg
        Susan
        XLIF/Posterior Surgery 6/16/08. Fused T10-L5 in CA by Dr. Michael Kropf (don't go there unless it's simple, I hear he's at Cedar's now). Very deformed, had revision w/5 PSO's, rods from T-3 to sacrum including iliac screws, all posterior, 5/23/16 with Dr. Purnendu Gupta of Chicago.


        Owner of Chachi the Chihuahua, So Cal born and bred, now a resident of 'Chicagoland' Illinois. Uh, dislike it here....thank God there was ONE excellent spine surgeon in this area.

        Comment


        • #34
          Susan

          Nice x-ray! Hope your feeling a little better.....

          This thread is almost a mandatory read for those having surgery. Any surgery.....

          Linda is an excellent moderator.....

          Ed
          49 yr old male, now 63, the new 64...
          Pre surgery curves T70,L70
          ALIF/PSA T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
          Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

          Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
          http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

          My x-rays
          http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

          http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

          Comment


          • #35
            This is such an interesting thread.


            I recently had a second lot of injections- first were in my neck and the second in my lumbar spine.

            The doctor who did the second ones went through the consent and at the end very formally stopped and said there was a risk of my being paralyzed if she 'nicked' the Aorta and did I want to proceed?.She would not know if she had 'nicked' it until too late.

            I was dumbfounded - she said she would leave the room while I made my decision. I said I could not possibly make that sort of decision there and then- I had waited ages for the appointment, made a 2 hour Journey to the hospital at crack of dawn- was unfed and watered and in great pain.

            I stupidly asked for odds - which frankly I cannot digest because to me I will always be the ONE. I asked her if she had ever nicked the Aorta and she said no. Later my brother said that oddswise it would be better if she had as that would mean the odds on her doing it again were in my favour ( ha-ha) but my brain does not work like that. Anyway the nurse present asked me what the problem was and told me they do hundreds of the injections with no problem. She was complete blasť about it all.

            I told the doctor that no-one had mentioned any risk before when I had the neck ones and she said the risks were much higher for those injections. I don't think she believed me but it was true - no-one had mentioned risks specifically as she had.

            By then I was incapable of any rational thought and was very upset- I was embarrassed that I could not think straight - I went ahead and quaked thru the whole process - I was rigid with fear - a horrible experience.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by LindaRacine View Post
              I've never seen a number anywhere near that high. I think that all the published numbers are between .5% and 1%.
              And it's more related to anesthesia, not the surgical procedure itself.
              Last edited by Prfbones; 08-25-2016, 10:31 AM.
              "The plural of anecdote is not data" --Frank Kotsonis

              Ph.D. in Bone Biology
              Harrington rod and Leuke sublaminar wires 2/1986, fused T4 to T12.
              First revision 3/1987 fused pseudoarthrosis, placed CD instrumentation from T10-T12.
              CD instrumentation removal 10/97 following breakage.
              Leuke wire removal 4/99.
              Salvage surgery; Harrington removal 1/2000, fused to L2.
              Ruptured disc, fusion extension to L4 3/2016.
              Surgeons: David Bradford, Francois Denis, Mike Lagrone

              Comment


              • #37
                Joyful was the only NSF member I know about that didnít make it......

                She will always be remembered.....

                Ed
                49 yr old male, now 63, the new 64...
                Pre surgery curves T70,L70
                ALIF/PSA T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
                Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

                Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
                http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

                My x-rays
                http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

                http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

                Comment


                • #38
                  I think of Joyful from time to time.

                  People need to realize that these things can happen without any error on the part of the medical team. Surgeons take patients as they come, with some patients often having spent years exhausting conservative options. Adults can have "windows" for surgery like kids. And some people just can't tolerate surgery I suspect no matter when they do it.

                  Dr. Hey seems like a bit of a lone wolf in advocating earlier surgery in the hope of a shorter procedure, shorter recovery, and longer life of the remaining unfused vertebra. I have to wonder about this issue of adjacent disc disease. We measure that as against normal but it should be measured against the incredibly uneven loading of an untreated large curve. So yes the fusion may damage the unfused discs below but is it more or less damage over a shorter or longer interval compared to the crazy loading of a large curve?

                  Scoliosis is example #3,890,551 why life is unfair.
                  Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                  No island of sanity.

                  Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                  Answer: Medicine


                  "We are all African."

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Awwww, thanks Ed.

                    Burdle... Did I understand you correctly? What kind of injection were you getting? I've never heard of anyone having their aorta nicked while getting a spinal injection. The aorta runs along the front of the vertebral bodies. The injections are typically done at the posterior elements of the spine. That's a pretty big distance between the two.

                    --Linda
                    Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
                    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
                    Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Lumbar l5 nerve block.

                      apparently the Aorta does run close the this- she was very specific

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Hi,
                        Just to clarify the doctor was taking about the risks when doing the Lumbar. She said the risk for Neck injections were higher but not the same risks; so not the Aorta in the case of the neck ones. but she said I should have been advised about the risks when I had the neck ones.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by burdle View Post
                          Lumbar l5 nerve block.

                          apparently the Aorta does run close the this- she was very specific
                          Lumbar vertebrae are huge. It seems to me that the needle would have to travel maybe 4" to get to the aorta.

                          http://aorticdissection.com/wp-conte...2/aortic01.jpg
                          Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
                          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
                          Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by LindaRacine View Post
                            Lumbar vertebrae are huge. It seems to me that the needle would have to travel maybe 4" to get to the aorta.

                            http://aorticdissection.com/wp-conte...2/aortic01.jpg
                            The aorta divides at the level of the pelvis to become the two main leg arteries and runs very close to the where they put the l5 nerve block in.

                            This was at The Royal National Orthopaedic Hospital London. I suppose it is possible that you know more than they do, Linda.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Since my aorta and vena cava had to be moved or slid over from the discectomy zone, I have noticed that there is some material stating that these vessels can or do follow scoliosis curves, and with rotation, can present a non-textbook positional situation.....The abdominal aorta can also drift off the spine in non-scoliosis patients. (There is always something new)

                              The aortic aneurism material is scary.... Lucille Ball, and John Ritter had this happen.....(smug face)

                              Ed
                              49 yr old male, now 63, the new 64...
                              Pre surgery curves T70,L70
                              ALIF/PSA T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
                              Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

                              Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
                              http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

                              My x-rays
                              http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

                              http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by burdle View Post
                                The aorta divides at the level of the pelvis to become the two main leg arteries and runs very close to the where they put the l5 nerve block in.

                                This was at The Royal National Orthopaedic Hospital London. I suppose it is possible that you know more than they do, Linda.
                                I don't know if that was meant to be snarky. That's how it comes across.

                                I was never doubting you or your doctor. I was wondering what I didn't know about anatomy that made it possible to hit the aorta with a needle from the back.

                                --Linda
                                Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
                                ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
                                Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

                                Comment

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