Can Chiropractic care cause scoliosis to get worse?

[Pooka1]

The problem that many see with chiropractic is that no one seems to be able to "prove" that subluxations exist. We either don't have the technology or the smarts to prove it, or it really doesn't exist and some other force is at play here.

Chiropracters themselves prove subluxations don't exist... no two chiros can point to the same spot on a radiograph as to where the subluxation is located. Plus we have honest chiros like Homola who think the only hope for chiro is to abandon the subluxation myth. I agree... they look like idiots with the subluxation thing.

I see there are some heated views here that have obviously been discussed before. Like I said before. I didn't mean to open a can of worms this BIG.

I don't view this as a can of worms nor a particularly big one. Pseudoscience will always have its adherents. Science is the only way of knowing anything factual. Pseudoscience is a way of pretending to know "facts." When something is around at least 90 - 100 years and there is still no evidence of efficacy despite folks studying it, then it is very likely nonsense. Schroth for curve correction, bracing for holding curves, and chiro for anything except short-term muscular stuff are in this category.

A particular problem, chiros should be arrested for practicing medicine without a license when treating kids with scoliosis in my opinion.

[Pooka1]

Forgot to address this...

I think this whole argument can be argued until people are blue in the face. The FACTS are that we don't know how chiropractic works because no one can figure out what happens when a joint pops. I do believe that there is some placebo effect for people who chronically go in with aches and pains, but hey, MD's play upon this phenomenon as well. Maybe some day someone will come up with a way to figure this all out. Until then, let us do what helps us. For me, sprained ankles, YES. Scoliosis, NO. Sorry, I just feel that this message thread has helped to enlighten me. Until I find out how it works, I think I'll hold off for now.

We know from science that the placebo effect is real. We also know from science that lithium is effective for manic depression.

In both these cases, there are real effects to measure and it is a fact that they work but also in both cases we don't know how they work. So we only know empirically that they work.

In contrast, for the great run of alternative treatments (chiro, Schroth, Clear, Pettibon, rain drop therapy, TAMAR, etc. etc. etc.), we not only don't know how they might work (nonsense claims aside) but we also have ZERO evidence that they are effective. And in some cases we can rigorously disprove the claimed mechanism like for homeopathy which is the poster child for pseudoscientific nonsense (pardon that redundancy) in my little opinion.

In the US, a large majority of people think they live in a demon-haunted world. That is fine for them but it becomes a liability when they are faced with a real medical problem where that type of thinking will completely fail them. There is a price to pay for not prizing facts.

[dailystrength]

When it comes to physical therapy: Schroth, Pettibon, etc or exercises like Pilates, Yoga, etc. we are all still hoping that these will work, and willing to try them to avoid surgery. What is the risk of using these methods? Dr. Betz, Dr. Durrani, and other orthopedic surgeons do not see a risk in these methods. The do not feel they will help, but also do not feel they will hurt.

So, who performs Schroth and Pettibon? Who provides the SpineCor flexible brace (which was recommended by Children's Hospital pediatric orthopedic surgeon and supported by Dr. Betz and Dr. Durrani for my daughter to wear part-time)? Primarily physical therapists (for Schroth) and Chiropractors for Pettibon and SpineCor (and some chiropractors are now getting trained in Schroth). So, if you want to try one of these non-surgical methods, who are you supposed to see?

When my daughter sees a chiropractor he/she does not focus on spinal/neck adjustments. They don't "crack her neck". They use methods that have shown some positive results to decrease the curve. Does it work for everyone? No. Neither does bracing. Neither does surgery.

And let's not forget, we have orthopedic surgeons, like Dr. Betz and Dr. Durrani, putting nickel, titanium, stainless steel, etc. implants into our children and they are not sure of the long term affects. When Dr. Betz did stapling on children with curves over 35 degrees he was experimenting. He was "hoping" it would work, turns out it did not work for some. So these children had to have a growing rod (hybrid rod) installed and are now subject to surgeries every 6 months. This could be 10-15 surgeries for a child. Every surgery puts a child at risk.

Let's all keep an open mind that neither the medical doctors, physical therapists, or chiropractors have the solution. And, spinal fusion, unfortunately, in my mind, is the absolute last solution, but it is the only surgical method recommended by the Scoliosis Research Society (SRS). As we have discussed the SRS does not recommend vertebrae body stapling and it does not recommend the flexible brace. Does this mean they are not effective? Only time will tell. But I see chiropractors and orthopedic surgeons experimenting on our children.

Until our children are required to have surgery, like my daughter Syd, we are going to pursue non-surgical methods. And, the path to these non-surgical methods will lead us to physical therapists as well as chiropractors.

The emphasis should be on finding the "good one" who is practicing the non-surgical methods for scoliosis that each of us believe in. Let's not get wrapped up in who performs it. If you do not like the "spinal/neck cracking" then just tell your chiropractor you are interested in specific methods and not in their spinal adjustments. Just like we tell a medical doctor we are interested in trying bracing before surgery.

And again, what about the 100,000-200,000 deaths per year due to medical errors? The medical field is full of incompetence and a bad medical professional (surgeon, nurse, etc.) is probably just as likely, or maybe more likely, to negatively impact your child's health or life, than that of a chiropractor.

Michael

Michael, thanks for your balanced reply in the discussion. My Dr. (Chris Shaffrey at UVA) also will not do surgery on me. I could find someone who would, but he says I don't need it. I don't; I am functioning fine (49L main curve). Thanks for the reinforcement; I am sure I could find a Dr. who would. I trust Dr. Shaffrey - he is all over the web for his research.

About other chiro methods - what is the method yours does that is supposed to help scoliosis? I am so curious!

Lastly, I am waiting on my insurance to (hopefully) approve the Schroth Method at a clinic in MD. Jennifer Graham PT it is called. Not sure where you are. But there is a link to practitioners on the Katherina Schroth website. In the meantime, I got the book "3 Dimensional... on Schroth" by her daugher Krista Lenhard Schroth (sp?)- it is actually a manual for physical therapists. In the intro, from 2007, she says that no successful treatment has been found for scoliosis - neither surgery nor other (!). It is true, surgery may bring a sense of relief, but it's not a solution, either.

[michael1960]

rohrer01

It is a good discussion and thank you for initiating it. My only purpose was to comment that we keep an open mind about surgical and non-surgical treatments. A good balance presenting both sides is what is most helpful to others reading this forum. Some readers, including myself, are always looking for ideas. I find these forums and the experience of people sometimes more valuable than what we may be hearing from a chiropractor or orthopedic surgeon. For example, I learned of VBS, Rigo-Cheneau Brace, Pettibon, Scoliscore, Schroth, and much more through these forums, not any orthopedic surgeon or chiropractor. And for each of these it is most helpful if I can hear the good and the bad, even if it is a bit heated.

For Syd, if we decide to have surgery, we need to decide on staples and a growing rod (hybrid rod) which has been around for a few years but still fairly new and she will need to have surgeries every 6 months or going with a brand new self-growing rod that is being implanted into a child for the first time. Even if a person chooses to go forward with surgeries there are different surgical techniques and instrumentation used. And usually, each surgeon feels strongly why their technique and instrumentation is best.

Working with our chiropractor, we had some results that showed some reduction in her curve from about 28 degrees to 23 degrees between T4-T12. But, the curve increased between T5-T10 (30 to 32 degrees).

And then 6 weeks later the T5-T10 measurement not only went back to the starting point, but also improved (closer to 26-28 degrees). One idea or theory is that the treatment/therapy loosened up the spine area making it more flexible. The treatment include exercises that straightened the spine from 30 degrees to 0 degrees. Part of this makes sense if our goal is to get the spine back to 0. I know that in a brace the orthopedic surgeon and orthotist want to get as much improvement (curve reduction) as possible. If a brace can take the spine from 30 degrees to 0 degrees, that would be great and may produce the greatest results. Some orthopedic surgeons and orthotists try for an overcorrection in the brace. But if a brace can only take a person to 15-20 degrees, the spine never gets a chance to get back to 0. However, through some physical therapy/exercises the spine can get back to 0 degrees even if it is temporary.

Following Syd's chiropractic treatment (which was a combination of multiple methods and little to no spinal/neck adjustments) she has been doing 1-2 hours of exercises per day.

Her improvement during a 6 week period following the treatment may be contributed to the brace she wears (SpineCor) or maybe the home exercises. But she has improved. She started at 36 last October and is now staying closer to 28-30 degrees. Our immediate goal is to hold the curve and hopefully get down to 25 degrees.

And at this time she is also wearing two braces. She wears a SpineCor brace to school and to play sports and she wears a Boston brace at home and at night. She is about 18 degrees in the SpineCor brace and 13 degrees in the Boston brace. Almost everyone I talked to regarding the wearing of two braces, orthopedic surgeons, chiropractors, and orthotists said that she cannot wear two braces, it will not work. At least two (one orthopedic surgeon and one chiropractor) have both been open to it. But from my perspective she is compliant (in a brace) about 22-23 hours per day, every day. She has no issues going to school or playing sports wearing a brace. Just because there are no studies on wearing two braces does not mean it may not be the best solution, at least the best solution for Syd.

In the end I will probably never know whether it is the chiropractic treatment (which is physical therapy not spinal/neck adjustments) or the bracing that helps her the most, but all that matters is that she improves. And, in the end, none of this may make a difference. Many of the orthopedic surgeons feel at this point that anything she does is only temporarily delaying surgery, but if we can delay surgery for a couple years and allow time for more proven surgical advancements (i.e. self growing rod) and allow her to grow, then that may be the best approach.

I am just trying to figure this out day by day and follow the advice of the orthopedic surgeons, chiropractors, and orthotists that I have grown to trust.

And trust is not just about them showing great interest in Syd, but also demonstrating competence in their field of expertise. I don't expect orthopedic surgeons to be aware of the latest and maybe most effective bracing or physical therapy just like I don't expect physical therapists and chiropractors to be aware of the latest surgical techniques.

The International Research Society of Spinal Deformities invites multiple disciplines to its organization in the search for the best "multi-disciplined" treatment for spinal deformities, including scoliosis. This includes physical therapy and exercise as well as other disciplines. So, the question for all of us, if we believe in a multi-disciplinary approach, which "professional" (pediatrician, pediatric orthopedic surgeon, orthotist, physical therapist, chiropractor, etc.) can provide it. For us, we have a pediatrician who is not very involved, 1-2 pediatric orthopedic surgeons who provide different surgical techniques, 1 chiropractor who provides physcial therapy and SpineCor brace adjustments, and 1 orthotist for the Boston brace (but we will be getting a 2nd opinion from another Boston brace orthotist).

Thanks again for initiating the conversation.

Michael

[michael1960]

DailyStrength

Please let me know whether the last post answered your question.

The chiropractor we see is trained in multiple disciplines that are focused on scoliosis. These include Clear, Pettibon, and SpineCor.

Most of the therapy seems to be more Pettibon than anything else. He does not focus on the lateral movement of the spine only (to improve the cobb angle) but also works on the cervicle and lumbar curves to make sure they are correct.

For example, my daughter will lay about 20 minutes per day on a lumbar and cervicle roll. One under the lumbar part of her back and one under her neck. This is to work on the natural curves that should be in the back.

There is an interesting study regarding Force Lodosis. It showed that when a person lays on their back, their thoracic curve will improve (smaller cobb angle). But, if something is placed under the thoracic-lumbar area (not just lumbar area), the thoracic curve continues to improve even more.

My perspective, especially with an 8 yr. old daughter and a growing spine, anything we can do to straighten the spine is a good thing. And if can combine that with some exercise while the spine is straight, that is even better.

She does wear some different weights and other devices and balances herself on an air disc. When she is doing this her spine is almost straight. The chiropractor tried several different methods until he was able to get her spine from top to bottom almost straight. Then she exercises by balancing herself on an air disc that forces her to work the muscles around the spine. The theory is that she is strengthening the muscles around the spine while the spine has very little curve in it.

I feel that the muscles around the spine do play a role. For example, when i was at the chiropractor, two sisters, one year apart in age, both with scoliosis around 40-50 degrees. One is very athletic (plays college basketball and softball). Her spine will only straighten to about 30 degrees. She is very muscular from playing sports. The other one, who plays no sports, her spine will straighten to almost 0. Maybe, if a person could hold their spine in a 0 degree curve position, and at the same time develop the muscles around it, maybe it could help hold the curve. This is why I like the flexible brace. My daughter's spine is about 18 degrees (vs 30 degrees) when she is playing softball, basketball, and soccer. It would be great if it was at 0 degrees when she is playing these sports.

Like others have said here, the greatest challenge is finding someone you can trust and is competent in what they do. We have gone through multiple orthopedic surgeons and chiropractors to find the ones we are using today. I have also utilized these forums to find "professionals" that are highly recommend. Like Dr. Betz (and Shriners Hospital) in Philadelphia is always highly recommended.

In some cases I have followed a recommendation that has not worked out.

For me, anytime one of these professionals begins to discredit another treatment and tell me how their treatment is the only one that works, I walk away! I will only work with professionals that are open to a multi-disciplinary approach and who are open to providing their insights into other methods. In the end, I create a team of professionals that I believe can deliver the best surgical and non-surgical treatment.

For example, when my chiropractor suggested a traction chair to straighten the spine 30-60 minutes per day, and to work on derotation, I suggested a Rigo-Chenau brace that will do the same, straighten the spine and work on derotation, but my daughter could wear it 12 hours per day, instead of 30-60 minutes. He was opened to the idea, especially if the brace could correct to 0 degrees.

When one of the best orthotists for the Rigo-Cheneau brace said that only one brace should be worn, but later agreed with my approach, that there could be value in a flexible brace to allow the muscles to work more, especially during sports, he changed his mind and was willing to support it.

But others have said absolutely no, only my approach will work. These are the professionals that will never be part of our team.

Good luck

Michael

[michael1960]

dailystrength

I forgot to mention that I also have the same Schroth book. I recommend it just from a pure education standpoint to understand the spine and the surrounding muscle structure. It is interesting to learn of the muscles that are attached to different parts of the spine, and in theory, if you could strengthen these muscles they could contract and pull on the spine, in the direction that would help to correct it.

It makes sense. When I hurt my knee playing basketball I went to the orthopedic surgeon (sports medicine) expecting that I would need surgery. It turns out that I had stretched some muscles on one side of the knee cap. So every time I stretched my leg, my knee cap slid slightly to the left and then popped into the socket. Very painful. He provided me with exercises to strengthen the stretched muscles. It took about 4-6 months but eventually the muscles became stronger and kept the knee cap in place.

I have been to the orthopedic surgeon for hip pain and shoulder pain (all from playing sports and getting older). I am always expecting surgery, but it is always stretching some muscles and strengthening other muscles. And surprisingly, it has always worked.

So, I have become a believer in strengthening and stretching muscles. But when I have raised this point with pediatric orthopedic surgeons specializing in scoliosis, most of them do not have a recommendation on strengthening and stretching of the muscles. It is primarily bracing and surgery, with many feeling that bracing does not work.

When I mentioned Rigo-Cheneau brace and Schroth Method to one of the leading pediatric orthopedic surgeons (who is part of our team) he had to look to his assistant who explained to him what they were. He had no idea. But that is ok. I just hope that when the time comes, he is the best surgeon he can be.

We have considered going to one of the Schroth centers (Schroth Rehab in Wisconsin) but it was not covered by our insurance. Instead we went to a chirporactor who had been trained in the Schroth method (also not covered by insurance). With my daughter being only 8 we just wanted some basic exercises that she could do. We learned around 5-6 exercises for her in a 4 hour visit.

Michael

[rohrer01]

Michael,
To be very honest, I have not heard of most of the treatments that you talk about here. You are a VERY good father to educate youself so much on the different treatment options for your daughter.

I was diagnosed at 16 by a chiropractor. My mother took me to Phoenix Children's Hospital, which had a state-of-the-art multidiscplinary team for its day. It included Spine Specialists (Orthos), Neurosurgeons, Physical Therapists, and Nutritionists. She also took me to an Osteopath, who did the weirdest things to me trying to "get rich" by discovering a cure for scoliosis and then patenting it. Needless to say he didn't cure me.

Some of the "legitimate" things I felt they did were some of the things you mentioned they are doing with your daughter. Exercises, lumbar and cervical pillows. I also had 10# of cervical traction for 30 minutes twice a day. My curve did improve from 39* to 36*, but that could be subjective.

I guess, I started this whole topic, because I also saw chiropractors. It was the Chiropractors and Osteopaths who almost ALWAYS claimed to me that they could "cure" scoliosis. Yet, I had NEVER seen or heard of one case where there was ever any more than a "temporary" benefit at most and never a cure. I also never knew that Chiropractors did anything but crunch bones, since that has been my sole experience with them, until this last one that I found who also does massage before she crunches.

I find it fascinating that you have found so much information out there and actually found Chiropractors willing to treat without or with very little spinal manipulation.

The manipulation has OBVIOUSLY made mine worse as I now have a 46* curve upper and 28* lower, forming a double thoracic curve. My lower curve before treatment was so small that it was pretty insignificant. The 46* curve might not sound like a lot either, but it only covers a span of, I think, 4 vertebrae.

I also KNOW that something IS taking place when the spine is adjusted. I just wish we knew what. If it was doing nothing, I would not have had those terribly painful shock waves going down both of my arms during that one memorable adjustment.

Whether we are people educated in the sciences, or laymen, we should all be open-minded enough to look more deeply into things. I think that I am just not convinced one way or the other whether or not subluxations exist, not that it even matters at this point - sorry Pooka1 (but I also commend you for your views of not blindly taking your daughters for non-proven treatments out of desperation - some of them are just tortuous as I speak from experience). The simple fact is that you can't disprove something based on one or two tests and then have different Chiropractors try to identify the subluxation. Right now we have certain things available to us. One of the things mentioned was the radiograph. That test simply is not sensitive enough to even pick up many fractures. Perhaps more sensitive testing is needed. The problem with our most sensitive ways of looking at things such as electron microscopy and the such, is that we are dealing with LIVING people. MRI's are more sensitive than x-rays, CT scans are more sensitive than MRI's for some things, but create a HUGE amount of radiation exposure. I'm sure no one will ever find enough human subjects willing to expose themselves to that just to try to prove or disprove a theory, not to mention that the government would most likely not allow it.

So it boils back down to my basic question. Is Chiropractic treatment helpful or harmful in the treatment of scoliosis? I guess my final conclusion is that if ANYONE tells you that they can "cure" scoliosis, turn and RUN the other way as fast as possible. If a practitioner is willing to be part of a multidiscplinary team, then maybe there could be some benefit. I think they should keep their hands off of the spine as far as bone crunching is concerned, though. But that is from my own personal experience. I was not educated in all these other methods of bracing, etc. that it seems some good Chiropractors are employing. I have learned a lot here from you all, especially Pooka1 and Michael. For that, THANKS!

The following is taken directly from the Scoliosis Research Society website under Adolescent Idiopathic Scoliosis Treatment:

http://www.srs.org/patients/adolesce.../treatment.php

"Alternative treatments to prevent curve progression or prevent further curve progression such as chiropractic medicine, physical therapy, yoga, etc. have not demonstrated any scientific value in the treatment of scoliosis. However, these and other methods can be utilized if they provide some physical benefit to the patient such as core strengthening, symptom relief, etc. These should not, however, be utilized to formally treat the curvature in hopes of improving the scoliosis."

So for me, that settles it. The alternative methods are for symptom relief only and not for any other long lasting purpose such as a cure.

[Pooka1]

I was not educated in all these other methods of bracing, etc. that it seems some good Chiropractors are employing.

Just a point of fact... it is easy to misunderstand that it is mainly surgeons, NOT chiros, who prescribe bracing. That gets lost in the discussion when Spinecor is on the table because that brace is largely only (but not exclusively) available from chiros and NOT surgeons. The reason is surgeons are unpersuaded by the literature claiming efficacy. After hearing the testimonials about misread radiographs (there is yet another case of a gross misreading on another forum), I don't believe a single number coming out of Montreal. I suspect neither do the great run of surgeons which explains why most do not prescribe the brace.

I am very certain the inventors of Spinecor were completely blind-sided by surgeons not prescribing the brace and chiros stepping just in to make a buck in the ensuing vacuum. I have to wonder if some or even most of those chiros were anti-bracing before they saw the Spinecor gravy train (multiple replaceable parts, etc.).

The following is taken directly from the Scoliosis Research Society website under Adolescent Idiopathic Scoliosis Treatment:

http://www.srs.org/patients/adolesce.../treatment.php

"Alternative treatments to prevent curve progression or prevent further curve progression such as chiropractic medicine, physical therapy, yoga, etc. have not demonstrated any scientific value in the treatment of scoliosis. However, these and other methods can be utilized if they provide some physical benefit to the patient such as core strengthening, symptom relief, etc. These should not, however, be utilized to formally treat the curvature in hopes of improving the scoliosis."

So for me, that settles it. The alternative methods are for symptom relief only and not for any other long lasting purpose such as a cure.

That settles it for anyone who prizes evidence and facts. Some folks struggle with the very idea that there are no proven effective conservative/alternative treatments. It's an understandable struggle but ultimately unnecessary for when the rubber hits the road.

Best of luck.

[rohrer01]

Pooka1,
Thank you. I will be doing some research on the spincore brace. I have already been put through some very bizzarre and ineffective "therapies" and am tired of being the proverbial guinnea pig. I can't blame my mom. She felt guilty for not believing the pain I was in, so was desperate to try anything to fix me.

Best wishes to your daughters.

[Pooka1]

Pooka1,
Thank you. I will be doing some research on the spincore brace. I have already been put through some very bizzarre and ineffective "therapies" and am tired of being the proverbial guinnea pig. I can't blame my mom. She felt guilty for not believing the pain I was in, so was desperate to try anything to fix me.

Best wishes to your daughters.

Thanks for the best wishes for my baby kids.

And actually Spinecor might be helpful to relieve pain in adults. There are believable testimonials about that. But it would mean wearing the brace the rest of your life which might be worse than surgery. And it seems potentially effective in some JIS cases though much more study is needed and it is unclear if it holds the curve through the growth spurts. The problem is that it was designed for the AIS crowd and that's the crowd that surgeons don't seem to want to use it on.

Anyway, you know the score so you will make the right decisions.

[rohrer01]

If you go to the spinecor website. Their testimonials don't show very much improvement in cobb angles at all!

http://www.scoliosisspecialists.com/

They do testify to a reduction in pain, but now I'm kind of skeptical. I would have to try it to believe it. I'm all about pain reduction, but with that little of an improvement in cobb angle it makes me wonder how it works. I am wondering if you can get one through a regular doctor or a chiropractor or both? I'll ask when I go see the neurosurgeon on Thursday. Thanks again everyone!

[michael1960]

rohrer01

Very well said.

Just as an FYI regarding the SRS. The SRS recommends bracing until 45 degrees and then spinal fusion. You will find that many leading pediatric orthopedic surgeons do not follow these SRS guidelines. For example, many pediatric orthopedic surgeons are moving forward with vertebral body stapling (VBS) even though it is not recommended by the SRS. The NSF and SRS, for the most part, do not mention it and do not even provide any links to sites providing more detail on VBS. I would also put SpineCor in this same category. Both of these methods have been around 7-10+ years but are not yet accepted by NSF and SRS and by many insurance companies.

So, if we believe in VBS (that has worked for many and has shown some excellent results) and/or a flexible brace (that has worked well for us and many others and was highly recommended by multiple Children's Hospital pediatric orthopedic surgeons and it was invented by orthopedic surgeons) then one may want to conclude that the SRS recommendations are a little bit "old school".

It is hard to believe that they recommend bracing only until 45 degrees and then spinal fusion. VBS is performed on curves below 35 degrees and VBS with a hybrid rod is performed on curves below 45 degrees. Dr. Betz and his team at Shriners Hospital have been doing it for about 7 years.

I will have to check again to see if the SRS recommends genetic testing (scoliscore) for predicting curve progression, another leading edge tool.

My point is that it should not be a surprise to us that the SRS are not recommending non-surgical more conservative treatments. They are not even recommending the latest medical advancements to treat scoliosis.

I have created a website scoliosis101.com to capture all the articles, videos, and studies that I have found on the internet. I am trying to create a structure to make it easy to find scoliosis related information. I have a lot of work to do with it but it provides me with a way to organize all the information that I find. I think it may be a good start, but it has a long ways to go.

And regarding chiropractic care for treating scoliosis (curve reduction), I think you are right about needing to be very careful and stay away from those saying they can cure it. I like your idea of making them part of a multi-disciplinary team. Even some scoliosis organizations have moved to a more multi-disciplinary approach feeling that it takes multiple disciplines to manage scoliosis.

I am having discussions with my chiropractor on whether there is value in making the spine more flexible to improve in-brace correction. A brace pushes against the ribs and then the spine. But that spine can be a bit rigid, but what happens if it is made more flexible through some therapy. And some support that the greater the in-brace correction the potential for greater out of brace curve reduction.

Our own personal results working with a chiropractor showed curve reduction in the T4-T12 measurements but curve progression in the T5-T10 area. So, good for the T4-T12 measurements but bad for the T5-T10 measurements. Then, 6 weeks later after bracing (with a much better in-brace correction) the T4-T12 improvement remained but the T5-T10 measurement not only returned back to normal but improved. Was it the more flexible spine that allowed for greater in-brace correction and therefore the greater out of brace correction?

The risk is that the more flexible spine results in a greater curve, but then is not corrected by the brace. Anyway, this is my latest "theory" regarding chiropractic care. Again, nothing to do with "back/neck crunching". Many chiropractors have moved on to focus on physical therapy, flexible bracing, and other techniques.

With all of this said our primary non-surgical treatment is still bracing 22-23 hours per day (SpineCor and Boston braces). Everything else (chiropractic, schroth, pettibon, etc.) are all secondary treatments.

I have very much enjoyed this topic and discussion.

Thanks again for initiating it.

Michael

[mamamax]

Just a point of fact... it is easy to misunderstand that it is mainly surgeons, NOT chiros, who prescribe bracing. That gets lost in the discussion when Spinecor is on the table because that brace is largely only (but not exclusively) available from chiros and NOT surgeons. The reason is surgeons are unpersuaded by the literature claiming efficacy. After hearing the testimonials about misread radiographs (there is yet another case of a gross misreading on another forum), I don't believe a single number coming out of Montreal. I suspect neither do the great run of surgeons which explains why most do not prescribe the brace.

I am very certain the inventors of Spinecor were completely blind-sided by surgeons not prescribing the brace and chiros stepping just in to make a buck in the ensuing vacuum. I have to wonder if some or even most of those chiros were anti-bracing before they saw the Spinecor gravy train (multiple replaceable parts, etc.).



That settles it for anyone who prizes evidence and facts. Some folks struggle with the very idea that there are no proven effective conservative/alternative treatments. It's an understandable struggle but ultimately unnecessary for when the rubber hits the road.

Best of luck.

Then again .. I'm an adult who has been bracing with Spinecor since April of last year.

When I began, I was in the "needs surgery" category. Such is no longer the case.

Regardless of what some who do not have first hand experience and/or training with this brace may *think* ... I am very thankful that it was available for me. And I personally know others who say the same.

[Pooka1]

[COLOR="Navy"]Then again .. I'm an adult who has been bracing with Spinecor since April of last year.

When I began, I was in the "needs surgery" category. Such is no longer the case.

This is why I said that there are believable testimonials about pain relief in adults with Spinecor. This will become the major market for the brace in my opinion for folks willing to wear it the rest of their life.

[mamamax]

This is why I said that there are believable testimonials about pain relief in adults with Spinecor. This will become the major market for the brace in my opinion for folks willing to wear it the rest of their life.

The rest of their life??? That is your opinion Sharon - not a fact.