Torso Rotation Strength Training for Scoliosis

[mamamax]

mamamax



I think that's what they'll ultimately discover.

I asked my son's doctor (the best in my city) what caused AIS. He said that his friends in the research community knew it was a neurological disorder but they weren't sure how it worked or what the trigger was. I assumed that meant that his nervous system was disrupting the way his bones grew and in response his spine grew crooked. But if that's true why is every other bone growing normally?

I'm sure that scientists are right, it's a neurological disorder. And no doubt bones are a link in the chain of events that cause Scoliosis. But it seems to me that something bigger is going on.

That fact that TRS works is a big clue that muscles are either the driving force or a key player.

BTW good link on the nervous system! I'm putting that in my favorites for reference.

I think there is a good case for what your doctor said. That would explain why so many things (TRS, Yoga specifically for scoliosis, Pilaties specifically for scoliosis, PT specifically for scoliosis, Schroth, Martha's work, my brace, etc, et al) provide benefit in some cases. These things are (in this context) a form of - rehabilitation.

Glad you liked that link - me too!

[mamamax]

mamamax
I asked my son's doctor (the best in my city) what caused AIS. He said that his friends in the research community knew it was a neurological disorder but they weren't sure how it worked or what the trigger was.

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around this - the statement is huge in terms of what the research community "knows."

I assumed that meant that his nervous system was disrupting the way his bones grew and in response his spine grew crooked. But if that's true why is every other bone growing normally?

Presuming the above is true - the answer to that is complex. From the referenced link on the nervous system:

Motor (anterior) nerve root: The motor root emerges from the front of the spinal cord. Motor nerve fibers carry commands from the brain and spinal cord to other parts of the body, particularly to skeletal muscles

.

Muscle activity (or lack thereof) plays a role in bone (spinal) formation/deformation?

[Dingo]

External or internal

Mamamax

Muscle activity (or lack thereof) plays a role in bone (spinal) formation/deformation?

There are two possibilities.

A) An internal force is pushing the spine out of alignment as it grows.

B) An external force is pushing the spine out of alignment as it grows.

According to Roger Schwab a few minutes of strength training per week brought a 16 degree curve down to 0.
That's strong evidence for B.

I don't see how TRS could have such a fast and significant impact if the problem was primarily located in the vertebrae. Bone is a lot tougher than muscle.

Example:
Polio can cause children's bones to become bent and deformed (see picture).
Exercise is good for almost everything. However my sense is that improvement for significant bone deformities like this would come slowly if at all.

[mamamax]

Dingo -

Yes - agreed. My comment really wasn't that well stated. What I was trying to suggest is that - the muscles play a role in directing curvature (going back to things neurological).

Shaping is a whole other thing - and something as I understand it, that can happen quite rapidly with the immature spine, quite slowly with the mature one.

Seems almost less complex to rehabilitate the situation than to figure out how it happened.

[Dingo]

rehab

mamamax

Seems almost less complex to rehabilitate the situation than to figure out how it happened.

Ya know in small curves you could be exactly right. I think I remember that the first 10 degrees of a curve doesn't necessarily change the shape of the vertebrae much or at all. After that they start to wedge and grow differently.

I pray my son's spine stays in the "10ish" degree range for another 2 years. Once he turns 8 I'm buying a used MedX.

[Dingo]

Several TRS studies in the pipeline?

This is from Health Central.

Scoliosis - Managing Scoliosis

Strengthening the Muscles That Turn the Torso. A promising approach focuses on training and strengthening the muscles that turn the torso. Studies using specific equipment (e.g., MedX Torso Rotation machine) are showing promise. In a 2003 California study, 16 of the 20 patients experienced curve reduction and no curves progressed. In an earlier study, patients increased strength from 12% to 40%. One girl with a severe lumbar curve required surgery, but there was no progression of curvature in the remaining 11 patients, and four of the patients experienced a reduction in their curvature. No braces were used. Clinical trials using this approach are underway in California, Maryland, Missouri, and Tennessee. Exercising the torso to build muscle strength is important, in any case, in conjunction with braces.

I don't know how accurate that is but who knows? I didn't realize the Swiss study on torso rotation was set for release until Sealy found it a few weeks ago. Maybe quite a few of these are in the pipeline.

I can say this with confidence. If scientists developed a pill that was half as effective as what TRS appears to be $millions would be pouring in to get it on the market.

[LindaRacine]

I can say this with confidence. If scientists developed a pill that was half as effective as what TRS appears to be $millions would be pouring in to get it on the market.

Not even close. They'd be setting up controlled trials. IF those worked out, they'd have to do some longer-term follow up, to show that the correction actually held up over time. They'd also have to show that the treatment didn't have other negative effects.

[Dingo]

research

LindaRacine

They'd be setting up controlled trials. IF those worked out, they'd have to do some longer-term follow up, to show that the correction actually held up over time. They'd also have to show that the treatment didn't have other negative effects.

Of course, and that's what the millions of dollars worth of research money would be used for.

[LindaRacine]

The folks with the rotation machine could be spending the same millions. Ever wonder why they're not?

[Dingo]

exercise company

The folks with the rotation machine could be spending the same millions. Ever wonder why they're not?

Because they don't have millions? Plus if they turned their machine into an FDA approved medical device (which would take about a decade) wouldn't that open them up to a massive amount of liability?

[LindaRacine]

Because they don't have millions? Plus if they turned their machine into an FDA approved medical device (which would take about a decade) wouldn't that open them up to a massive amount of liability?

Yes, the same amount (or probably even less) of liability the drug company would have.

And, yes, Cybex has plenty of money:

http://investing.businessweek.com/re...ticker=CYBI:US

[Pooka1]

Yes, the same amount (or probably even less) of liability the drug company would have.

And, yes, Cybex has plenty of money:

http://investing.businessweek.com/re...ticker=CYBI:US

If there was credible evidence that this was the first effective, permanent non-surgical scoliosis reduction approach, I suspect they would be investing heavily in it. They will have cornered the market.

But in lieu of actual evidence we instead have personal trainers with less than zero research training personally vouching for it. Just when you think there could be nobody in this game with less training than chiros have, along come the personal trainers. The only thing left are the psychic healers and chanters.

[hope404]

HaHa!!!

"psychic healers and chanters"

That is toooooo funny Pooka1!!!!

[Pooka1]

I suspect we would have heard about psychic surgery by now also if The Amazing Randi hadn't already debunked it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxMGxz6-oTs

[Dingo]

cost for FDA approval

Jan 13, 2006: FDA rules aim to speed drug tests and trim costs

If the length of clinical trials were shaved by 25 percent, drug manufacturers would save $129 million per new drug approved, according to recent research by Joseph A. DiMasi of the Tufts Center for the Study of Drug Development, which put the cost of developing a new drug at $802 million. Halving the time spent on clinical trials would lower drug development costs by 29 percent, saving drug companies $235 million per new drug approved, DiMasi found.

I'm not sure how closely this relates to a medical device but getting FDA approval is neither fast nor cheap. I should also add that the first offical pilot study on torso rotation was released by Dr. Mooney in 2003. Even if Cybex or MedX had started the approval process the very next week they wouldn't have FDA approval yet.

And, yes, Cybex has plenty of money:

CYBEX INTERNATIONAL INC

What makes you think they have plenty of money? According to your link they recently lost $9.1 million on $147.9 million in revenue. I don't think an $800 million dollar, 10 year FDA approval process is in their budget right now.

From a business standpoint it's more profitable to refrain from making medical claims and let the growing number of independent studies promote their products.