Originally posted by Pooka1
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Torso Rotation Strength Training for Scoliosis
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Last edited by mamamax; 12-11-2009, 10:19 PM.
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Originally posted by mamamax View PostI don't know about that, I really don't. And if that may be a valid conclusion from the data on hand - I would have to seriously question the data .. or lack thereof actually. What I mean by that is: I just don't see that all bases have been fully covered, sufficiently enough, to make that conclusion without question.
If you can't list anything then my conclusion remains consistent with the data in hand though of course that doesn't mean is is correct. That is an important distinction. All anyone can do is work with the data in hand which in that case may or may not be incomplete with respect to PT permanently reducing curves when the treatment is stopped.Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
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Originally posted by mamamax View PostI don't know about that, I really don't. And if that may be a valid conclusion from the data on hand - I would have to seriously question the data .. or lack thereof actually. What I mean by that is: I just don't see that all bases have been fully covered, sufficiently enough, to make that conclusion without question.
Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
Comment
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Originally posted by Pooka1 View PostOkay which conservative treatments do we know keep kids out of surgery for life who would otherwise have progressed to surgery? Please list them below.
If you can't list anything then my conclusion remains consistent with the data in hand though of course that doesn't mean is is correct. That is an important distinction. All anyone can do is work with the data in hand which in that case may or may not be incomplete with respect to PT permanently reducing curves when the treatment is stopped.
Does this mean all kids can be kept out of surgery with bracing? No. But it does mean some can.
Last edited by mamamax; 12-11-2009, 10:34 PM.
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Originally posted by mamamax View PostMy list always begins with Joe O'Brien who kept two kids out of surgery with bracing.
Science 101.Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
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Originally posted by mamamax View PostOh that's great - then bottom line is ... there is no proof that bracing works and there is no proof that it does not (basing proof on cradle to grave statistics).
I'm glad we solved that one! Someone alert the press.
Science 102Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
Comment
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Originally posted by mamamax View PostMy list always begins with Joe O'Brien who kept two kids out of surgery with bracing. Unfortunately, we do not have an international data bank that would prove a sufficient expanded listing for this discussion. But his story is played out every day among other families. And in this we find the missing data.
Does this mean all kids can be kept out of surgery with bracing? No. But it does mean some can.
Joe's kids might (operative word) have stayed out of surgery with Spinecor, any brace - or no brace. You keep bringing up his family, and I'm sure you want to believe there are givens there (I wish I could), but there's NO *definitive* proof bracing is what tipped the scale.
There's just NOT.
If I can, I'll grab the full paper for you tomorrow. I could be delayed as I'm getting ready for my Marine to come home on leave (out of Afghanistan safely a few weeks ago). Lots to do this weekend!
Pam
41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
Pre-op ±53°, Post-op < 20°
Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston
VIEW MY X-RAYS
EMAIL ME
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Originally posted by mamamax View PostYes Please! I would like the full article of the abstract you mention - so, that is something given to adult surgical patients, how often?
I will always feel it cut my restriction/recovery time dramatically, and at 22 months out my fusion is solid.
41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
Pre-op ±53°, Post-op < 20°
Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston
VIEW MY X-RAYS
EMAIL ME
Comment
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Originally posted by txmarinemom View PostMaxene,
Joe's kids might (operative word) have stayed out of surgery with Spinecor, any brace - or no brace. You keep bringing up his family, and I'm sure you want to believe there are givens there (I wish I could), but there's NO *definitive* proof bracing is what tipped the scale.
There's just NOT.
If I can, I'll grab the full paper for you tomorrow. I could be delayed as I'm getting ready for my Marine to come home on leave (out of Afghanistan safely a few weeks ago). Lots to do this weekend!
Pam
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Originally posted by txmarinemom View PostrhBMP-2 is used fairly often these days (at least I know my surgeon uses it) in adult fusions. I received it in Feb 2008 - and my surgery photos show the placement via absorable collagen sponges very clearly.
I will always feel it cut my restriction/recovery time dramatically, and at 22 months out my fusion is solid.
Seriously, I look forward to reading it - thanks!
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Well, I think we know that there simply aren't enough controlled studies to be able to answer this question one way or another. It would take something extraordinary (a curve reduction) to be able to address this question given the state of the literature.
But, the problem is clearly the state of the literature. Even a great alternative treatment, so long as it simply stopped progression and didn't reduce a curve, would be unknown given the state of the literature.
Originally posted by Pooka1 View PostOkay which conservative treatments do we know keep kids out of surgery for life who would otherwise have progressed to surgery? Please list them below.
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Originally posted by hdugger View PostWell, I think we know that there simply aren't enough controlled studies to be able to answer this question one way or another. It would take something extraordinary (a curve reduction) to be able to address this question given the state of the literature.
But, the problem is clearly the state of the literature. Even a great alternative treatment, so long as it simply stopped progression and didn't reduce a curve, would be unknown given the state of the literature.
1. My one kid was stable while in the 30s for at least 6 months while out of brace. Had she happened to be enrolled in that torso rotation study she would be considered a success. Yet she went on to fusion later.
2. Pam stopped wearing her brace and got to ~50* as a teenager and then STAYED there for about 2 decades. Had she been wearing a brace as directed that would have been considered a bracing success.
3. Your own son is stable absent brace or PT.
Proponents of conservative treatments will have to somehow control for these types of cases if they are going to claim efficacy.Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis
No island of sanity.
Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
Answer: Medicine
"We are all African."
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