Setting the Record Straight

[mariaf]

No, it's not that. This was a surgeon off the list on your website. I don't know of anything else that would have caused her not to qualify. She had a negative four degree Cobb angle on her Charleston Bending Brace and a negative five degree Cobb angle on her new custom made brace that she received in May, so it is certainly not her spine flexibility. And my daughter was at a Risser 0 when we went to this surgeon.

Thanks for that info. If you wouldn't mind sharing the surgeon's name with me (either by PM or email) I'd be very interested. Not that I would contact him or anything - but I'm very curious to know who it is.

Reason being, I was involved in putting that list together (with another mom) and the doctors whose names appear wanted to be listed because they chose to perform VBS because thought it was a good choice for CERTAIN patients.

In fact, a few of the surgeons had someone on their staff contact us to say "Dr. so-and-so is now performing VBS surgeries and would like to be included on the list". None of those names were added without first checking with these doctors, so again I'm just a little confused.

Thanks again - I'm glad the brace is working for your daughter!

[concerned dad]

Einstein said=> I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth.

Ah ha, Sharon, is this where you get your fervor? Where you fettered?

I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being." -- A. Einstein

hmmm, I guess I'm with Albert on this one

I too often use religious references and metaphores. I do enjoy the traditions and celebrations that accompany many religious events. I suppose being married to a jewish woman and sending our daughter to a private catholic school pretty much covers the bulk of my religious involvement though. It is always a challenge to make sure the menorah doesnt catch the Christmas tree on fire.

Swinging the thread back around (almost) to scoliosis - My daughter believes her curve reduced to 34 degress because of the prayer we said at St Josephs Oratory. I dont want to take that belief away from her. I dont know for SURE that it didnt. I have to admit the thought crossed my mind. But the scientist in me recognizes the myraid of other explanations.

[Lorraine 1966]

CD, thank you for that story "St Josephs Oratory" your post was just nice to read, on a day when I am feeling rather low.

Lorraine.

[Pooka1]

Einstein said=> I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth.

Ah ha, Sharon, is this where you get your fervor?

Nope. Some people come to atheism for that reason but certainly not most! Atheism is just a way to say you understand why humans created gods and religions and that you are intellectually honest.

The crusading aspect is more and more apparent as people get sick of the clerical bullying, the trampling on church/state separation, and the general immorality of purely religious-based positions like banning embryonic stem cell research and gay marriage and trying to limit choice. There is no non-theological reason to limit embryonic stem cell research, gay marriage or choice so there is no rational reason to do so. There is a word for adults who think "souls" live in petrie dishes.

Where you fettered?

No. My parents were both atheists. I later put in the reading and research to understand the specifics from many fields including archaeology, psychology, etc. of why atheism is the only rational choice.

I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being." -- A. Einstein
hmmm, I guess I'm with Albert on this one

Yes scientists have humility and admit they don't know. In contrast, religious people will tell you they know the mind of god, what he wants you to eat or not eat, who you can and cannot sleep with, etc. That is the OPPOSITE of humility in claiming to know things they can't possibly know, yes?

Swinging the thread back around (almost) to scoliosis - My daughter believes her curve reduced to 34 degrees because of the prayer we said at St Josephs Oratory. I dont want to take that belief away from her. I dont know for SURE that it didnt. I have to admit the thought crossed my mind. But the scientist in me recognizes the myraid of other explanations.

You also don't know that invisible purple wombats on the far side of Pluto didn't decrease your daughter's curve and she incorrectly attributed it to her prayer to the biblical god.

There's a lot we don't know. It's unseemly to pretend we do know things we can't possibly know.

[mamamax]

From Albert ~

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind

The only real valuable thing is intuition

From mamamax:

Belief (by all definitions) may be quantum (the fundamental unit of a quantized physical magnitude, as angular momentum) to cure.

According to the Scientific Method - there are times when - the Scientific Method simply, does not apply:

http://teacher.nsrl.rochester.edu/ph...AppendixE.html

[CHRIS WBS]

CD, thank you for that story "St Josephs Oratory" your post was just nice to read, on a day when I am feeling rather low.

Lorraine.

Faith-based stories have a way of lifting one’s spirits, don’t they Lorraine? If you’d like, send me a PM with your e-mail address, and I’ll share with you the story of how St. Therese (my favorite saint) interceded for me during my surgery experience, and also what occurred to me during my darkest moment in the ICU.

[Ballet Mom]

mariaf,

If you wouldn't mind sharing the surgeon's name with me (either by PM or email) I'd be very interested.

I'm sorry, I am unwilling to do that. I have the utmost respect for this surgeon and wouldn't do anything to harm his reputation in any way...(other than complain about his radiology staff)...

I am satisfied that my daughter's treatment has happened in the way it has for a reason.

[Ballet Mom]

CD,

It is always a challenge to make sure the menorah doesnt catch the Christmas tree on fire.

Thanks for the great imagery!

[Ballet Mom]

Pooka,

If you are trained to trust faith over evidence, it can spill over into things where the rubber meets the road like scoliosis treatments where all hell breaks loose.

why atheism is the only rational choice.

My faith is earned, not learned. And in fact, it was obtained long after I was trained in the scientified method. My undergraduate degree was in engineering so I have many more tough science classes than the average bear. To have faith doesn't mean people are slack-jawed yokels, in case you didn't know.

Yes scientists have humility and admit they don't know.

I have to disagree. The arrogance on display by "pure" scientists is really quite amazing. Earlier on in my life I worked at a top technological university and I have to say that lots of time was spent on trying to prove to each other who had the biggest brain. I believe humility is a prerequisite for true faith, which is no doubt a great part of the reason it is so lacking in the scientific community.

all agnostics are atheists (because they don't believe).

I believe that agnostics are willing to admit they don't know or it is unknowable...atheists believe they KNOW.

[LindaRacine]

OK, enough on religion. If you want to discuss that topic, there are plenty of other places to do that.

[dailystrength]

I think everyone dealing with scoliosis can all get a little agitated when challenged about their current method of dealing with scoliosis. We are all tired, in pain, frustrated, and somewhat angry. This is a condition for which no cures are found and research is underfunded. I myself have "gone off on someone" who suggested that my PT exercising was not helping, when I suggested I still have some pain. As someone above said, there is no cure.

I wore a Boston brace back in 1978-9 to stabilize my spine, and I was never given follow up. Now, 30 years later, I found out my curve has severely progressed. Not to undermine bracing (would I have wanted surgery? - no), but the point is to KEEP FOLLOWING UP. Had a begun core strengthening, spine stabilizing exercises sooner, I may have had less of a curve to deal with now. My Dr. is leery of surgery, even in my case, if I can manage the pain. Anyway, that's my story. Currently, finding what works. It's a daily challenge. Best to you.
ps: A huge THANK YOU to the President (Joe, was it?)-- on research and development of the Spinecor brace. I am interested in adult use of it. I am also interested in posture alignment - how do I stand that is best for me? Do I pull the higher hip down? My body twists and pulls in all directions, esp. my neck. I would love research / treatment for finding what is good for a body, and for being able to discern this without an annual x-ray. Thanks!!!

[debbei]

I think everyone dealing with scoliosis can all get a little agitated when challenged about their current method of dealing with scoliosis. We are all tired, in pain, frustrated, and somewhat angry. This is a condition for which no cures are found and research is underfunded. I myself have "gone off on someone" who suggested that my PT exercising was not helping, when I suggested I still have some pain. As someone above said, there is no cure.

I wore a Boston brace back in 1978-9 to stabilize my spine, and I was never given follow up. Now, 30 years later, I found out my curve has severely progressed. Not to undermine bracing (would I have wanted surgery? - no), but the point is to KEEP FOLLOWING UP. Had a begun core strengthening, spine stabilizing exercises sooner, I may have had less of a curve to deal with now. My Dr. is leery of surgery, even in my case, if I can manage the pain. Anyway, that's my story. Currently, finding what works. It's a daily challenge. Best to you.
ps: A huge THANK YOU to the President (Joe, was it?)-- on research and development of the Spinecor brace. I am interested in adult use of it. I am also interested in posture alignment - how do I stand that is best for me? Do I pull the higher hip down? My body twists and pulls in all directions, esp. my neck. I would love research / treatment for finding what is good for a body, and for being able to discern this without an annual x-ray. Thanks!!!

I think you hit the nail on the head. We should have been told back then, to keep following up every x number of years, and don't wait until almos 30 years later like I did. I was living fat, dumb and happy that everything was ok for years when it was progressively getting worse and worse without my knowledge.

[Pooka1]

I think you hit the nail on the head. We should have been told back then, to keep following up every x number of years, and don't wait until almos 30 years later like I did. I was living fat, dumb and happy that everything was ok for years when it was progressively getting worse and worse without my knowledge.

It seems likely they were laboring under the false notion that <50* at maturity means you can avoid surgery in your lifetime.

That claim needs to be revisited.

[LindaRacine]

It seems likely they were laboring under the false notion that <50* at maturity means you can avoid surgery in your lifetime.

That claim needs to be revisited.

I think we always need to remember that these studies essentially report what to expect on the average. There will always be individuals that don't behave like the average.

--Linda

[Pooka1]

I think we always need to remember that these studies essentially report what to expect on the average. There will always be individuals that don't behave like the average.

--Linda

I question the average person below 50* avoids surgery, if not for progression then for pain or other ancillary issues.