Clear Institute vs. Schroth Method

[LindaRacine]

I too tend to give folks the benefit of the doubt. I could be wrong on this (and if I am, apologies to ems-mom) but I am pretty darn sure that I am not.

I posted to sort of offer an explanation to you by way of comparison about part of the reason you received an unfriendly welcome here by what is generally a friendly group of people.

Just because we were wrong about the figure skater and wrong about you doesnt mean we are wrong about ems-mom (hmmm, suppose there is a slight chance)

Did the figure skater issue get resolved? I must have missed that one.

[Pooka1]

Did the figure skater issue get resolved? I must have missed that one.

Only partially in my opinion.

Red flags went up at first because of the ridiculously ignorant comments she made (i.e., 12 rods involved in fusion surgery, etc.).

Then of course she provided no evidence of curve improvement.

Then someone looked up the list of nationally and internationally ranked skaters and no Danielle (or whatever her name is) of the correct age appeared on the rankings. This issue is still unresolved... either Danielle is not her real name or she did not mean she was presently ranked. Or something else.

I admit to mild shock in seeing the video given all the above.

Still, what has it proven in terms of the efficacy of alternative treatments to reduce a curve permanently? Nothing.

[concerned dad]

I admit to mild shock in seeing the video given all the above.

The video put a face to a name and struck me as sincere.

Regarding the 12 rods, as Pam pointed out, the doctor may have said 12 screws and, seeing as how it is a bit of a bombshell to hear you need surgery, perhaps her mind heard 12 rods.

Regarding the figure skating ranking, well, we all sometimes make slight exaggerations to paint a picture. St Josephs oratory is not "accross the street" from St Justines Hospital, it is a couple blocks away. That doesnt make me a fraud (I hope).

I would disagree with Missemmyf about

associated with schroth in some way and trying to promote it? even if that is the case, i don't see what's so bad about that???

I only think it's OK to promote something in a public forum like this so long as you disclose your association (if any) with the thing you're promoting. I would love to have a Schroth providor come on here and share what they know with us. They'd have to be ready for some tough questions.

JUst my 2 cents

[CHRIS WBS]

On one of my post-op appointments I was conversing with another woman in the waiting area. She saw my brace and said she had just gotten over wearing hers. From what she was telling me, it sounded like she had surgery for what I think may have been degeneration in her lower spine (not necessarily scoliosis). She appeared to be in her late 60s. She told me she had 8 rods placed in her spine. I knew of course she was mistaken and most likely had 8 vertebrae fused and was probably told she had to have rods placed along the sides of 8 vertebrae. Unless you’ve researched back surgery, it’s easily understandable how someone can be misconstrued. Until I began my research fours ago, I was clueless.

This young 20-year-old was also slammed for citing her curve measurement to the tenth degree . I looked up my original radiographs from July 2005. These were the first x-rays I ever had taken. Imprinted on them is “cobb angle measures 74.3”. Also note lumbar curve measurement here. http://drlloydhey.blogspot.com/2009/...iosis-and.html

[Pooka1]

This young 20-year-old was also slammed for citing her curve measurement to the tenth degree . I looked up my original radiographs from July 2005. These were the first x-rays I ever had taken. Imprinted on them is “cobb angle measures 74.3”. Also note lumbar curve measurement here. http://drlloydhey.blogspot.com/2009/...iosis-and.html

There is a world of difference between physically measuring an angle to the tenths of a degree and thinking it is meaningful. No orthopedic surgeon, including Hey, will deny the precision on that measurement is at least a few degrees. I mean it isn't like if Hey measures that curve again and it's 0.4 degrees higher that he thinks the angle changed. In fact the angle could be 4-5 WHOLE degrees (not tenths) different and he will not tell the patient the angle changed.

The great run of lay people here don't understand that the tenths place is not meaningful nor why it isn't meaningful.

[Ballet Mom]

I think Pooka1 needs to come clean with whomever she is shilling for. As far as I am concerned she's a shill for Surginal Spine Centers of America (fictitious example) or a major stock holder of spinal technologies or something. We have nothing to prove she is anything other than that.

I find it hard to believe that she has a doctorate what with her inability to even understand that this forum is obviously not a representative sample of the population of scoliosis patients out there and her jumping to conclusions right and left. She is the most intolerant and rigid thinker I've read. I don't need Pooka1 to censor this forum for me. I would like to read what others have to say about things that she wants to shut down and then use as an excuse that someone read their tenth of a degree x-ray measurement on the display and reported that as their Cobb angle. Big deal.

Many professional ballet dancers who have major scoliosis use daily exercises to keep their scoliosis in check and their curves mostly unnoticeable and I assume that it is probably Schroth related. I am interested in finding out more about it for my daughter. Non-surgical related scoliosis exercises do have their adherents, and I doubt many of them think they are permanently improving their curves, however, ballet dancers are very concious of their physiques and looks and are very diligent about doing their daily exercise and as long as they continue to do so, I suspect it has a beneficial effect for them. I will be looking to take my daughter to a Schroth clinic in the future. And I don't need you to shut another thread down.

[LindaRacine]

And I don't need you to shut another thread down.

Hi Ballet Mom...

Be warned that there's a difference between debating a point and personal attacks. Personal attacks are what will get a thread closed.

With that said, I've felt for a long time that there is a way to semi-permanently reduce curves. Individuals willing to devote a lot of time (maybe 4+ hours daily), can train their muscles to keep their spines straight. I've seen evidence of this in a few individuals. Unfortunately, unless one makes their living in an exercise discipline, it's pretty unrealistic. I believe that these individuals will have their curves return if/when they can no longer devote the appropriate amount off time. So, the danger in this strategy is that these individuals may just be putting off surgery until their age puts them at risk for greater complications (which may be a reasonable trade off for many).

Regards,
Linda

[loves to skate]

On one of my post-op appointments I was conversing with another woman in the waiting area. She saw my brace and said she had just gotten over wearing hers. From what she was telling me, it sounded like she had surgery for what I think may have been degeneration in her lower spine (not necessarily scoliosis). She appeared to be in her late 60s. She told me she had 8 rods placed in her spine. I knew of course she was mistaken and most likely had 8 vertebrae fused and was probably told she had to have rods placed along the sides of 8 vertebrae. Unless you’ve researched back surgery, it’s easily understandable how someone can be misconstrued. Until I began my research fours ago, I was clueless.

Chris,
Hopefully I can attach my xray correctly. I am fused from L2 to S1 and yes, there 8 rods. Sally

[LindaRacine]

Hi Sally...

Those are actually 2 rods and 10 screws (or bolts), a connector and 2 pelvic extensions.

Regards,
Linda

[Pooka1]

Look it doesn't matter that the skater is completely lost about the specifics of surgery.

What would matter, if true, is if she is being mislead with false statements by her health care provider who may be trying to deliberately scare her about surgery. She may have a harder surgery if she eventually needs it if she is delayed in part by bad information.

[Pooka1]

(snip) are you are implying she is associated with schroth in some way and trying to promote it? even if that is the case, i don't see what's so bad about that??

A disclosure to that effect, if true, would be the most honest approach, yes?

[Pooka1]

I think Pooka1 needs to come clean with whomever she is shilling for.

Okay you got me.

I'm shilling for reason, ration, and most of all, intellectual honesty.

GUILTY!

And this reminds me of what our surgeon said when I mentioned I write about the excellent job he did for my daughter and guessing it might get him more patients.

He said he already has as many as he can handle. No need for advertisement. Apparently he stands on his record of achievement and artistry and that alone fills his surgical dance card.

You get what you pay for.

[CHRIS WBS]

I'm shilling for reason, ration, and most of all, intellectual honesty.

And don't forget secular progressivism.

[Pooka1]

CD ~ you know of course, i highly respect you as an informal forum leader.

CD can lead me anywhere, formally or informally.

He GETS it, not to be confused with we always agree. It means he THINKS independently and originally.

I respect that.

[Pooka1]

And don't forget secular progressivism.

No idea what that is. In my 128 undergrad credits, only 18 were non-science and non-math. So perhaps you'll to forgive my unforgivable lack of breath in the social sciences and arts/humanities.

Did you make up that term?