Clear Institute vs. Schroth Method

[mamandcrm]

Sorry, you are still missing the point. It's about options...OK, I quit now. Not getting sucked back in.

[Pooka1]

I didn't explicitly ask her but we did discuss the procedure and her opinion about it at the 2d appointment. (She actually brought the topic up just as I was about to tell her that I had made an appointment at Shriners on my own for an assessment.) She actually is very interested in the procedure, thinks it has promise, was not against us doing it, but if I recall correctly I think she said she had concerns about doing the procedure on 25 degree curves--that some of those patients might be non-progressive and therefore undergo surgery unnecessarily. Sound familiar

Sounds rational to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So it seems she thinks there is a good chance your daughter's curve will not progress. That sounds like the reason she didn't mention it.

I think if we dig deep enough, most surgeons will be shown to be rational.

[Dingo]

not saying any names

I don't want to say any names but in an effort to keep this board running smooth and efficient...

Please Do Not Feed The Troll!

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

[mamandcrm]

I didn't explicitly ask her but we did discuss the procedure and her opinion about it at the 2d appointment. (She actually brought the topic up just as I was about to tell her that I had made an appointment at Shriners on my own for an assessment.) She actually is very interested in the procedure, thinks it has promise, was not against us doing it, but if I recall correctly I think she said she had concerns about doing the procedure on 25 degree curves--that some of those patients might be non-progressive and therefore undergo surgery unnecessarily. Sound familiar I understood her reasons for not being sure it was right for my daughter, and appreciated her opinion. But I still would have liked to know about it and heard that opinion at the first appointment. There you go...

[mamamax]

Have you read the testimonials from kids in the bracing section. They will break your heart. Some days I can't read them.

I've read some very successful stories in the bracing section. There are more stories in the adult surgical section (those that require revision after revision) that break my heart. Scoliosis sucks.

[Pooka1]

OK, you are just not seeing my point and the discussion is going pretty off-topic so I am going to call it quits. But, just to clarify as you seem to be under the impression that this was some time ago, it was last year. And nothing much changed in the 5 months between the appointments. My daughter was and still is a candidate for the procedure which by the way I am undecided about or we would be doing it. But, as I said at the beginning, that wasn't the point

One more question if I might before you call it quits please?

Have you asked your surgeon why she didn't mention it?

I think that answer would clear everything up.

[Pooka1]

How do I ask if I don't know about it?

You wouldn't want to know about a technique that in the professional opinions of most surgeons was too experimental and which, in hindsight, your child would not have benefited from.

Are you saying you might still chose an experimental technique if you got five opinions against it?

If it wasn't mentioned, isn't the likely reason because it was too experimental?

All surgeons can do is form an opinion based on the information they have. It might have been very rational to not mention VBS before a certain point in time and the vindication for that is the narrowed candidate list compared to just a few years ago.

Perhaps surgeons have seen experimental procedures come and go with only a handful ever becoming accepted technique. Wouldn't it be rational to use that experience to decide what to mention to a patient's parent?

[mamandcrm]

Oh, and I like our surgeon...

[mamandcrm]

OK, you are just not seeing my point and the discussion is going pretty off-topic so I am going to call it quits. But, just to clarify as you seem to be under the impression that this was some time ago, it was last year. And nothing much changed in the 5 months between the appointments. My daughter was and still is a candidate for the procedure which by the way I am undecided about or we would be doing it. But, as I said at the beginning, that wasn't the point

[Pooka1]

And, no, I don't want my doctor "screening" out options for me that are accepted by many others in the medical community. I want to hear the option, the opinion, and then be allowed to make up my own mind.

Nobody is saying you shouldn't get several opinions on experimental surgery. In fact you should get MORE opinions on that compared to accepted techniques.

With respect to VBS, in fact they have narrowed the field of "good" candidates and they continue to do so. Until they show the technique is reliable and repeatable and predictable, it will be "experimental." Five years ago (or whatever), if you had a child who didn't meet the criteria, you would have been very grateful to NOT know about VBS. And the surgeons at the time were well within their professional purview to not mention it given what they learned in the more recent period.

You are trying to reason from hindsight without considering that surgeons a while ago could have RATIONALLY not mentioned VBS to you. It might not have panned out as much as it has to date. Surgeons aren't clairvoyant. I don't think you are being fair to them. The great run want to help these kids and are competent.

[mamamax]

All I can do is go by what you write. Linda has had to reel you in a few times for a reason.

Oh, give me a break. That is actually laughable.

[mamandcrm]

How do I ask if I don't know about it? I don't want my doctor "screening" out options for me that are accepted by many others in the medical community. I want to hear the option, the opinion, discuss it and then be allowed to make up my own mind.

[Pooka1]

[QUOTE=mamandcrm;78191]

? Are all surgeons nutty or just some in your opinion?
QUOTE]

Sorry I don't get this comment. Where did I say any surgeons were nutty? I think I said that some do not offer potential alternatives, even those with science and respected doctors behind them (like VBS), because they do not agree with the data. I'm not advocating the muscle therapy discussed here. I'm simply disagreeing with you on that point.

A professional opinion on experimental surgery "A" is just that. Go to another surgeon and you will get another professional opinion on experimental surgery "A" that may differ from the first opinion.

If the surgery was proven it wouldn't be experimental, yes? So all we have is professional opinion. There is no surgical standard with respect to VBS yet. Just as I mentioned to Ruth, if your child was stapled before they realized she wasn't a good candidate for some reason then you would have thanked your lucky stars your surgeon failed to mention it or even dissuaded you from trying it.

They are the professionals. They have the training. There is nobody better to ask. Who better to ask if not them?

[mamandcrm]

[QUOTE=Pooka1;78187]? Are all surgeons nutty or just some in your opinion?
QUOTE]

Sorry I don't get this comment. Where did I say any surgeons were nutty? I think I said that some do not offer potential alternatives, even those with science and respected doctors behind them (like VBS), because they do not agree with the data. I'm not advocating the muscle therapy discussed here. I'm simply disagreeing with you on that point.

[Pooka1]

Excuse me Pook - you do not know me well enough to make such a statement. For the record - my choice in treatment is more rational than your emotional response to it.

All I can do is go by what you write. Linda has had to reel you in a few times for a reason.