Clear Institute vs. Schroth Method

[Qikdraw]

Well I'm gonna add my 2 cents to this issue.

Well there is a medical tourism industry in some foreign countries (e.g., Thailand) wherein citizens of the US go abroad for medical care and even heart surgery and such. But it isn't because those options are more advanced... it is ENTIRELY because the treatments are a fraction of the cost even considering the travel costs.

You're right, its not that they are more advanced, its that some people's insurance won't cover it or it'll be far too expensive for them. ALso some insurance companies ARE sending people overseas to India and Thailand, because it is so much cheaper, even adding in the cost of travel. The surgeries done there are on par with surgeries done here.

I can well imagine folks in Canada coming to the US for surgery if they can't get scheduled soon enough in Canada. The way Canada keeps its medical costs down is by strictly rationing the number of doctors and surgeons. People die waiting for some procedures.

Well this is one of those scary stories about Canadian healthcare. People die here from insurance companies denying coverage. Remember the teenage girl who needed a liver transplant? Her insurance company denied it because it was 'experimental', once this hit the news the insurance company backtracked and approved it, but it was too late, she died the next day.

Here is an interesting article. It states that 18,000 Americans die every year because of lack of basic health care.

Here in an article that busts myths about Canadian healthcare.
Another article too. Part 1, Part 2

As a side note, do you remember me complaining that it took me 6 months to get an xray for my back, when I went to my doctor here with back problems, and my history of back problems? In Canada I would have had an xray that day. Instead my doctor said I would have to see a specialist and if he said I needed an xray that would be ok. So off it went to insurance for approval to see a specialist, then making the appointment, going to see him, him writing his report for my doctor, then her sending that off to the insurance company for approval for xrays, etc... That took 6 months. Thats insane.

In terms of fewer woo-woo treatments available in the US, if that is even true and I doubt it, it may be because all states have a BBB and will prosecute folks for medical fraud. Perhaps other countries are far more lax in this department.

Insurance companies are in it to make money. They regularily deny people coverage even though their insurance covers the cost of treatment. They do this because only a certain percentage will actually fight it, its very cost effective for them to work this way. My wife used to be an insurance defence lawyer, she knows a heck of a lot about their tactics.


Having said all that, US doctors are great. I would not be alive if not for Dr Bradford, so I can hardly complain about US doctors. What I do complain about is the system. Is there a perfect system? No. Both the US and Canada have areas to improve on, and thats really what is important, making the system work better.

Ok, stepping off my soapbox now.

Brad

[Pooka1]

Dingo reminds me of the father, Augusto Odene (played by Nick Nolte), in the true story, Lorenzo’s Oil.

Hey! I guessed right except I referred to the wife.

Where's my prize?

[Pooka1]

Here in an article that busts myths about Canadian healthcare.
Another article too. Part 1, Part 2

I'll read these but I just want to mention I lived in Canada for three years. I know people who claim they know people wait and wait and one knows someone who died waiting for some procedure. It's not a myth. I'm not saying it doesn't go on elsewhere but it is no myth.

[concerned dad]

Hey! I guessed right except I referred to the wife.

Where's my prize?

when you said

"that oil woman"

I wasnt sure but I figured you didnt see the movie but where putting 2 + 2 together from S4Sarah's post.

But indeed, you got it. No prize though.
Thanks for playing

[Pooka1]

when you said

"that oil woman"

I wasnt sure but I figured you didnt see the movie but where putting 2 + 2 together from S4Sarah's post.

But indeed, you got it. No prize though.
Thanks for playing

I didn't see S4Sarah's post nor the movie.

I put it together from knowing the facts of the situation documented in that movie.

Prizes matter.

[concerned dad]

well, if you didnt see s4sarah's post then I am really impressed.

Maybe it is a sexist view of the world, but when I think of the story/movie, I think of Nick Nolte as more the champion than Susan Sarandon. Been a long time since I saw it though.

Prize? Well I cant think of anything appropriate other than perhaps an emphatic encouragement from me to you to go rent the movie. This one will stay with you (although you might favor Sarandon over Nolte - she was the one nominated for the acadamy award).

[Qikdraw]

I'll read these but I just want to mention I lived in Canada for three years. I know people who claim they know people wait and wait and one knows someone who died waiting for some procedure. It's not a myth. I'm not saying it doesn't go on elsewhere but it is no myth.

Well its not a myth, but it does happen here in the US as well. Which is aI guess why people saying that irritates me. Its being used as a 'fact' to dismiss Canadian healthcare, when the same thing happens here in the US.

[Pooka1]

well, if you didnt see s4sarah's post then I am really impressed.

No actually I can't think of another movie that might fit the "crusading parent despite medical establishment naysayers" motif besides that one.

Maybe it is a sexist view of the world, but when I think of the story/movie, I think of Nick Nolte as more the champion than Susan Sarandon. Been a long time since I saw it though.

See I didn't see the movie and didn't know that Nolte played the father. I just remember Sarandon was in the trailer or I otherwise knew she was in it.

Prize? Well I cant think of anything appropriate other than perhaps an emphatic encouragement from me to you to go rent the movie. This one will stay with you (although you might favor Sarandon over Nolte - she was the one nominated for the academy award).

That's a good prize! I'll rent it.

[Pooka1]

Well its not a myth, but it does happen here in the US as well. Which is aI guess why people saying that irritates me. Its being used as a 'fact' to dismiss Canadian healthcare, when the same thing happens here in the US.

Okay but I'd like to know the frequency. I'd also like to know the ratio of surgeons to people in each country. Can't go by absolute number since there are only 30 million people in Canada.

I had a doctor who emigrated from South Africa to Canada tell me that Canada keeps their medical costs in check by rationing the number of doctors. Is that incorrect?

[concerned dad]

That's a good prize! I'll rent it.

added bonus, as S4Sarah says she saw it in her biology class and your girls are 14 and likely taking biology in HS school soon if not now, they can enjoy it with you, and get some science out of it.

It's important to note that Augusto was a financial analyst type (not a working biologist) but he developed the background and tools to learn and was able to help his son when the time came. (Might help in response to comments like "Why do I need to know biology, I want to be an architect/fireman/policeman" type kids comments)

[Pooka1]

added bonus, as S4Sarah says she saw it in her biology class and your girls are 14 and likely taking biology in HS school soon if not now, they can enjoy it with you, and get some science out of it.

They take it next year in ninth grade. But they have had a lot of biology (and plenty of other sciences) tossed at them practically since day one. They both plan on going into the sciences as a career at this point.

It's important to note that Augusto was a financial analyst type (not a working biologist) but he developed the background and tools to learn and was able to help his son when the time came. (Might help in response to comments like "Why do I need to know biology, I want to be an architect/fireman/policeman" type kids comments)

You won't hear comments like that out of my kids. There can be no more interesting subject than one that has the ability to explain the world including the ability to explain why people invent the supernatural.

It's all brain science. The rest is commentary.

[mamamax]

While we are talking about movies ...

A few more good movies (available through iTunes) from the Harborview Spine Symposium featuring doctors from the University of Washington and elsewhere:

Emerging Techniques in Spinal Deformity Surgery (Deformity Reduction with Pedicle Screws)

Recurrent Spinal Deformity Above Spinal Fusion

Spinal Column Failure Below Fusion

Neuromuscular Scoliosis & Neural Element Lesions

Scoliosis Surgery

Future Trends in Spinal Deformity Surgery

[Dingo]

Lorenzo's Oil

Dingo reminds me of the father, Augusto Odene (played by Nick Nolte), in the true story, Lorenzo’s Oil. It is a heartwarming story about a parents love for their child and their perseverance to understand their childs disease and discover a treatment. The plot from wikipedia is below.

You guys are too kind. I'm just a desperate parent looking for answers like every other mom or dad on this board. I don't know what I'd do if I had to face a problem that daunting in the pre-internet era. Parents with sick children probably suffer more than any other group on earth. Sometimes I see parents with kids who have severe handicaps and I realize how good my son has it. Scott is a tremendously positive, sweet child. The other day he was talking to his brother and he said, "I love everyone in America." That statement sums him up pretty fairly. He is a ball of positive energy. Like any parent I would do anything for my son, but the fact that he is so positive drives me even harder. It kills me to imagine him suffering. Today he doesn't know that he has Scoliosis. I hope it stays that way for a Loooooong time.

[Danihenson]

Insurance companies are in it to make money.

If I bribe my Ins. Co. I might be able to....

See 50yrs old??

*huggs*
dani

p.s. sorry for trolling

[mamamax]

As for the merit of vestibular testing as it relates to scoliosis, you suggest we "take a long, hard look" - what exactly does that MEAN? If there is proof of the merit of vestibular testing as it relates to scoliosis, can you please point us to it?

Vert Mooney , John Mayer , David Woodbridge . The Journal of Musculoskeletal Medicine. March 1, 2007 v24 i3 p107

Some evidence suggests that persons with adolescent scoliosis have very subtle neurological abnormalities. For example, various studies have shown evidence of deficient proprioception, such as abnormal sway, in persons who have scoliosis compared with normal persons.(3) Others have suggested that abnormal vestibular function and abnormal motor control are present in the cortex in these patients.(4) More subtle abnormalities have been identified but are not consistent throughout the scoliotic population and do not supply a prediction of which patients will have curve progression.

(3)Keessen W, Crowe A, Hearn M. Proprioceptive accuracy in idiopathic scoliosis. Spine. 1992;17:149-155.

(4) Herman R, Mixon J, Fisher A, et al. Idiopathic scoliosis and the central nervous system: a motor control problem. Spine. 1985;10:1-14.

and ...

Abstract from Scoliosis Research Society (SRS) 2003 Meeting

Matthew T. Provencher M.D., Derin Wester, Ph.D., Bruce Gillingham M.D.; Naval Medical Center- San Diego, CA. Orthopedic Research and Education Foundation- Resident Research Grant

Conclusion: A central vestibular deficit is present in scoliosis patients. Central vestibular function is worse with larger curves, and the dysfunction is opposite to the curve. Curves with location in the mid-thoracic region demonstrated less central deficit than low-thoracic and lumbar scoliosis curves. The data supports a central vestibular dysfunction in patients with scoliosis

So ... these (and many other publications too numerous to mention) make a good case for testing & rehabilitation