Side Planks

[edouard]

Sorry, I didnt realize you were talking only about adults. I posted this case http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...=magecs+adults Had she fusion after Magec? Ok, it was the first case in an adult and with a giant curve. The purpose of Magec was to not only delay fusion in kids/teens but also avoid it. Others non fusion techniques seems to be trying with adults too, but as I know, the purpose is to avoid fusion. Certainly if you are decided to have fusion, I think that the best would be to have it as soon as you can.

For adult i see it different, the main benefit for magec will be to straight the spine slowly in several months, not to avoid fusion.

Indeed, in the current surgery I can see 3 big issues that i am sure bring many problems after. One of them is that the surgeon will straight your spine in few minuts after putting screw and rods. This is violent for the body, magnetic rods can solve that issue, i don t want my spine to be straight in few minuts.

Other 2 problems are

- Putting lot of screw are quite violent i don t like them so much (implanet startup is solving that http://www.implanet-invest.com/video-jazz-27 )
- In the current fusion technique there is a high failed rate and it cannot after be easily monitored if it was successfull. (aurora spine another startup try to solve that)

In my case luckily i can wait i am pretty confident what i described will come, patents can show you many innovation in advance.

Also today, for economic and demographic reasons because now they are really trying to target adults (not only severe cases) much more than before and also they need to have better solutions to reduce costs.

That s why in the meantime i am interested in side plank for example but it will never replace a clever surgery that solve the 3 big issues i decribed and i hope will come before i will have no choice to get surgery because of pain even if I recognize that current surgery even if for me is not clever have saved many people from pain and in some cases from death.

[flerc]

I agree with these 3 issues, but I see it mainly as risks and certainly I think there are others risks probably more worrying in a major and extremely invasive surgery as vertebral fusion is. The worst for me is certainty, not risks, even in the most succesful fusion surgeries that may be imagined.. The certainty about irreversibility (at least I never heard the contrary), so the worst for me is fusion itself, a very much important achievement one century ago, but in this one must be seen as something very old as it is and should to be replaced by something less invasive.

It seems to be a fact for adults that when later is taken the worst is the outcome, that's why I recommended you to not lose time with other things as trying to reduce degrees if you would be decided for fusion.. to only gain flexibility would be good for those purposes and probably the same.
I cannot see as something clever a surgery doing fusion, not in these times. If this what you say is the idea that Magec has for adults, it would surprise me very much, because they should to be honest and say it as you are saying and not create false expectatives like in all I have read before. It would be the same that those people talking about minimal invasive spinal surgery because the aproach is less invasive, of course it also has not sense to talk about a minimal invasive fusion surgery.
I know that at least not every people of non fusion techniques are thinking in doing this for adults, if this is the case with Magec, I hope they would be the only one thinking in this.

I don't know if Side Plank or others non surgical methods may be compared with new surgeries, it depends on what we are looking for. If what you want is to straight the spine the most that may be straightened, it has much sense what you say, but if what we wants is life quality, I don't think it could be clear yet, it would be depends mainly in how much effective non surgical methods really are.

[edouard]

[Removed and put in surgical thread for those like me interested in another way of fusion.]

[flerc]

As I said you before, for me it has no sense to think in a clever way to do today in this century, something old from others centuries ago as fusion is, the only way to do something clever is to replace it for something according these times. Anyway if you think different, talk about it only in surgical sections please, this thread in this section has nothing to do with it.

[edouard]

As I said you before, for me it has no sense to think in a clever way to do today in this century, something old from others centuries ago as fusion is, the only way to do something clever is to replace it for something according these times. Anyway if you think different, talk about it only in surgical sections please, this thread in this section has nothing to do with it.

No pb flerc, let's focus again completely on Side Plank, in your case did you start to do it ? What is your scoliosis case exactly and today status ?

[flerc]

Ok. If I'd have scoliosis, I'd be doing the Side Plank since months ago running every possible risk without any problem, but is my daughter, she has 55º according last x-rays of some months ago. She has a C curve but it's a complex situation, nothing simple for me to convince her, my wife don't want to hear me talking about scoliois.. and certainly I'd want to be more sure about this excercise. It's probably what is happening around the world.. everybody are waiting to know what happens with others..

[Pooka1]

The purpose of Magec was to not only delay fusion in kids/teens but also avoid it.

This is not true as far as I can tell. It was always just to allow more growth before final fusion. And indeed all the company literature I have seen never claimed it was possible to avoid fusion. The only claim was to avoid the multiple lengthening surgeries. If Magec was able to avoid final fusion then they would have claimed that as that is really the entire game.

Here is an example of Magec being used in a pediatric setting...(emphasis added)

http://childrensnational.org/choose-...led-growth-rod

Growing rods have become effective tools for children whose spinal curvature is too significant to control with bracing or casting. The rods—which are surgically attached to the spine above and below the curve and then lengthened during follow-up surgical procedures—allow the spine to continue growing while managing the curve until the child is old enough for spinal fusion.

The problem: Children must bear the physical and psychological burden of undergoing lengthening procedures every six to 12 months until they are skeletally mature enough to have spinal fusion—typically around age 10 for girls and age 12 or 13 for boys.

And finally here is the proof that you and other players in this sandbox have been mistaken about Magec being different than other growing rods in terms of the end game...

Like traditional growing rods, MAGEC is a means, not an end—the system provides a bridge treatment spanning the years between the initial lengthening surgery and spinal fusion.

I am not sure where you and others got the idea that Magec was different from other growing rods in terms of being a means as opposed to an end. I started a thread trying to make this point a while back. To no avail. Imagination is a strong force.

[flerc]

You know I cannot reply you because then the power here is used against me, so Ok, continue saying me what you want.
And certainly in this thread I'm only interested in the Side Plank. I don't want to see it closed because you.

[flerc]

I think this exercise is a good approach to the Side Plank https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmk5Mvz4pe8
Even if not any force would be done, it should to be good because Wolff's law.

[Pooka1]

I think this exercise is a good approach to the Side Plank https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmk5Mvz4pe8
Even if not any force would be done, it should to be good because Wolff's law.

These are chiros, not doctors...

http://kinetichealth.ca/our-practice/dr-abelson/

Word to the wise.

[Pooka1]

You know I cannot reply you because then the power here is used against me, so Ok, continue saying me what you want.
And certainly in this thread I'm only interested in the Side Plank. I don't want to see it closed because you.

You are always allowed to respond rationally, Fer. Your choice.

[flerc]

You are always allowed to respond rationally

Not when I want to show the failings of your posts.

[flerc]

These are chiros, not doctors...

http://kinetichealth.ca/our-practice/dr-abelson/

Word to the wise.

I think he is not the first proposing this exercise.. probably the first using these big balls but surely also physicians, physiatrists and osteopaths and even researchers would agree the positive side of this exercise taking into account bone remodeling.
Not every good exercises need to came from doctors, Yoga is one counterexample.

[theRobot]

I am trying this side plank.

I'm sad to say I don't have any records of my scoliosis area type and degrees. I have been a little upset with doctors' estimations and so I do not visit them as often as I should regarding my scoliosis. I was diagnosed in middle school but no action was taken. I am 30 now. I have had a total of 3 x-rays of spine to date, spread years apart. I don't have any copies but I want to retrieve them.

I THINK I remember that the angle is 25-30 degrees from my most recent visit. I know the main curve is on my right. I was told there is a compensatory angle.

I personally define the characteristics of my scoliosis in four rather superficial dimensions. First is the unevenness of my right chest compared to my left. My right side is variably more pronounced then my left, while observing laying flat on my back.

Second is the size of the long pronounced curve on the right side of my back, when viewed from the side in a mirror.

Third is the unevenness of my shoulder. The left is variably taller then the right. Last but not least is the day to day pain while doing everyday activities.

So I've been doing regular planks off and on about 4 times a week for a month, up until 4 days ago, when I started doing right side planks and main planks daily. I've been doing side planks 3 sets of 30 seconds, regular planks 5 sets of 20 seconds.

First I have to say that for me personally, I have noticed a decent decrease in the amount of pain and frequency of the more severe instances of back pain. I have never had a truly debilitating pain except for two or so instances that luckily faded without any treatment, but the lesser, daily pain has always been a constant issue with work. I do a lot of bending down, getting in and out of vehicles, and the most seemingly simple and mundane of movements, when done repeatedly, can cause me to really wear out and get sore by the end of the day, while the heavier lifting type things are much less trouble as long as I am able to be upright for the duration of the lifting. So all in all the reduction has been a big positive. However I am CAUTIOUSLY optimistic as this is still a new regimen in my life.

It's hard to say whether I've seen any true results as far as reducing the angles of things. The variations I mentioned earlier seem to vary with or without exercises.

I do have one concern regarding the methodology of this exercise. When I'm doing the side plank, I feel like I can change the configuration of the exercise in very big ways by simply tilting the right side of my chest in a little bit. I feel like the area of muscle that can be worked by the plank is made thicker, or wider, due to the effects of the scoliosis on the muscles, and so there may be a degree of targeting required to really attempt to do this properly. What feels like the natural correct side plank may need a slight adjustment, at least in my case. Of course, I'm no expert on any kind, just going off of feeling. It may be the case that trying to move my chest could make things worse, or maybe not doing it could.

I wonder if any kind of professional has addressed this concept in any way, and if so, I'd be interested in reading about it.

[rkochis]

Robot
As a 68 yo male with 62 and 48 degree curves that didn't bother me throughout my life except for the rib hump, I hit the wall around 60. So the first thing I would say is that you are doing the right thing. I wish I had started focused exercises at a younger age. At 60 it became hard to play 18 holes of golf (9 hncp) and walk 18 holes. Back aches, soreness, etc.
I went to a couple chiros to no avail. My primary care suggested a thoracic xray and a full body scan. This resulted in me knowing my curves and that my left leg is 3/4 " shorter. I strongly believe this a causal element of my scoliosis and body twist. I currently wear a compensating lift. You should get tested. I made the decision to do a little research and build a program that I could do daily. I have changed it many times over the years but it consists of Egoscue e-cises, SLM Yoga, side planks (doing daily for 3-4 months) and other misc stuff I found. Am I fixed? No way. Do I feel better? Yes. Is my posture better? Yes. Do I still play golf? Not as much and mainly only 9 holes, but my tennis is coming along great.

If you are interested, I would happily share the written and video stuff I have acquired. It would be best to contact me via email rkochis65@gmail.com

BTW, I agree with what you said about the side planks. Since I have an S curve, I do right hand and then left hand for about a minute each every day. I can feel the stretch in the shoulders deeper as I have gained strength.
Randy