Second Opinion with Dr. Hey

[jrnyc]

i had no intention of discussing religion...
i was just commenting on what was said about Dr hey...in a thread about Dr Hey...

i agree with Sharon...
i don't care...as long as it doesn't interfere with what needs to get done for a patient...
i just found it...disconcerting...
personally, i would not want decisions made for me, as a patient, based on what the surgeon "prayed" about...
i would want my surgery based on cold, hard medical facts....

jess

[Pooka1]

i had no intention of discussing religion...
i was just commenting on what was said about Dr hey...in a thread about Dr Hey...

i agree with Sharon...
i don't care...as long as it doesn't interfere with what needs to get done for a patient...
i just found it...disconcerting...
personally, i would not want decisions made for me, as a patient, based on what the surgeon "prayed" about...
i would want my surgery based on cold, hard medical facts....

jess

I agree that Hey pays a price in credibility by publicly admitting he prays over medical decisions rather than using ONLY experience and evidence. He may just use prayer as a euphemism for this medical deliberation with himself. Let's hope so. If he really believes prayer does anything (apart from placebo effect ) then he should not be in medicine. That would be the worst kind of gross contamination of science with religion.

Even though Hey pays a price in credibility by admitting to the prayer stuff, we have to remember he practices in a buckle of the bible belt here in Raleigh, NC. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a creationist here and these people arguably do not realize that religion contaminating science is a BAD thing. Ignorance on the wing.

[loves to skate]

Sorry I mentioned religion in the first place. It just made me comfortable with him. I'm sorry your surgery got canceled at the last minute Rohr. Praying is a way to examine one's heart and if he felt that he couldn't do you justice, isn't it better to cancel at the last minute than to operate and fail? At the very least, he put in the time thinking about your case. He probably should have done it sooner, but we all make mistakes. It's sort of like leaving the bride at the alter, but that bride is better off not marrying that man in the first place.
Sally

[jrnyc]

i do not think "examining one's heart" is a good way to make a medical decision...
i am not sure what the heart has to do with medical facts...
i think decisions like that are the job of the head...the brain, to be precise...

jess

[hdugger]

i do not think "examining one's heart" is a good way to make a medical decision...
i am not sure what the heart has to do with medical facts...
i think decisions like that are the job of the head...the brain, to be precise...

jess

I'd like to think that, too, but I often get a gut feeling that I trust over my rational mind. I imagine doctors have the same thing.

[jrnyc]

i know what you mean by that gut feeling...
but i am not operating on anyone...
i'd like to believe that any "gut feeling" a surgeon has it backed up by medical facts...
in a court of law, "gut feeling" wouldn't hold up as a reason for surgery!

jess

[loves to skate]

i know what you mean by that gut feeling...
but i am not operating on anyone...
i'd like to believe that any "gut feeling" a surgeon has it backed up by medical facts...
in a court of law, "gut feeling" wouldn't hold up as a reason for surgery!

jess

Jess, If you want to hijack my thread with your reasoning, go ahead. I am sure any surgeon of Dr. Hey's caliber backs up his "gut feeling" with medical facts and his own skills. There is a lot of injustice in courts of law and a lot of mistakes made by surgeons of low caliber!
Sally

[jrnyc]

fine...i didn't think of it as "hijacking" when three different posts wrote about his religious
point of view...and you first mentioned that he is "Christian" as if it is important to you
no problem...wouldn't want to hijack anyone's thread
to each their own!

[rohrer01]

Sorry I mentioned religion in the first place. It just made me comfortable with him. I'm sorry your surgery got canceled at the last minute Rohr. Praying is a way to examine one's heart and if he felt that he couldn't do you justice, isn't it better to cancel at the last minute than to operate and fail? At the very least, he put in the time thinking about your case. He probably should have done it sooner, but we all make mistakes. It's sort of like leaving the bride at the alter, but that bride is better off not marrying that man in the first place.
Sally

He didn't cancel my surgery, he cancelled my consultation. I never even met with him. I sent him copies of my x-rays and MRI and I talked with him on the phone and corresponded with him by e-mail, so it saved me the expense of even going out there. The receptionist told me via e-mail that he has cancelled other people's surgeries at the last minute due to prayer. I don't mind his beliefs. That's not the point. I haven't decided if I even want surgery. I go back and forth. I needed a second opinion because my first doctor told me to come back if my pain got worse, and when I did he blew me off and didn't even have my chart with him. I just found the reason for my cancellation disconcerting. He did tell me that there were plenty of good surgeons in my area that could perform the surgery and give me aftercare. But I had already discussed with him the reason I wanted to see him as opposed to other surgeons. I liked his short OR times and minimal blood loss and he was okay with that because he sees patients from all over. I don't think being open about religion by doctor or patient is unethical. But his receptonist saying my appointment was cancelled due to prayer and he does it to other people was more than a little odd. Medical ethics can get quite complicated. I don't think that either patient OR doctor should be forced to go outside of their comfort zone, whether it be for religious reasons or just plain I'm not comfortable with that procedure. It puts a mental block up for the surgeon and you may get a bad outcome, and for the patient, they have a right to decide what they want done with their own body. Like Linda said on another thread, don't try to make medical decisions for the surgeon as to the technique because he may try and accomodate you with disasterous results. If you don't like what he's telling you, find another doctor that you trust. I just don't think "prayer" was a legitimate reason to give me. If he has a reputation for doing that, as his receptionist stated in correspondence with me, then patient beware. I have my own idea as to why he really cancelled and I think it all boils down to $$$. My insurance denied coverage for me to see him, so I would have to pay out of pocket for the consult and likely would not have convinced the insurance company to pay for surgery with him, that's my opinion. If he was really concerned about me travelling, he could have said, even though I have patients that come from all parts of the globe, I don't think traveling for you would be a good idea because.....(there being plenty of good doctors in my area isn't good enough, as we had already discussed that) But surgery and type of procedure were already being planned before I even had a consultation with him, which should have been a red flag right there.

[Elisa]

He didn't cancel my surgery, he cancelled my consultation. I never even met with him. I sent him copies of my x-rays and MRI and I talked with him on the phone and corresponded with him by e-mail, so it saved me the expense of even going out there. The receptionist told me via e-mail that he has cancelled other people's surgeries at the last minute due to prayer. I don't mind his beliefs. That's not the point. I haven't decided if I even want surgery. I go back and forth. I needed a second opinion because my first doctor told me to come back if my pain got worse, and when I did he blew me off and didn't even have my chart with him. I just found the reason for my cancellation disconcerting. He did tell me that there were plenty of good surgeons in my area that could perform the surgery and give me aftercare. But I had already discussed with him the reason I wanted to see him as opposed to other surgeons. I liked his short OR times and minimal blood loss and he was okay with that because he sees patients from all over. I don't think being open about religion by doctor or patient is unethical. But his receptonist saying my appointment was cancelled due to prayer and he does it to other people was more than a little odd. Medical ethics can get quite complicated. I don't think that either patient OR doctor should be forced to go outside of their comfort zone, whether it be for religious reasons or just plain I'm not comfortable with that procedure. It puts a mental block up for the surgeon and you may get a bad outcome, and for the patient, they have a right to decide what they want done with their own body. Like Linda said on another thread, don't try to make medical decisions for the surgeon as to the technique because he may try and accomodate you with disasterous results. If you don't like what he's telling you, find another doctor that you trust. I just don't think "prayer" was a legitimate reason to give me. If he has a reputation for doing that, as his receptionist stated in correspondence with me, then patient beware. I have my own idea as to why he really cancelled and I think it all boils down to $$$. My insurance denied coverage for me to see him, so I would have to pay out of pocket for the consult and likely would not have convinced the insurance company to pay for surgery with him, that's my opinion. If he was really concerned about me travelling, he could have said, even though I have patients that come from all parts of the globe, I don't think traveling for you would be a good idea because.....(there being plenty of good doctors in my area isn't good enough, as we had already discussed that) But surgery and type of procedure were already being planned before I even had a consultation with him, which should have been a red flag right there.

That does sound like a possible reason he cancelled your consultation. Who really knows. I am not the praying type myself and if I were told that by a surgeon's secretary, I would have been flabbergasted. He is a wonderful surgeon though, and to each their own, however strange it seems.

[Pooka1]

I am not the praying type myself and if I were told that by a surgeon's secretary, I would have been flabbergasted.

I can understand that. But I think there is more to consider.

I grew up in NYC.

Until I got to the south, it was hard for me to imagine that so many people in one area could take religion so seriously. Hey is from Long Island (Oyster Bay), not that far from where I grew up in Queens. He is now in Raleigh, probably for a reason. He probably easily draws folks from all across the south and the Midwest, both strongholds of religion within an already very religious US compared to happier, much more atheistic countries like Norway, Denmark, Finland, and Canada.

I suspect Hey could fill his dance card from his surgical skills alone. I would still consider him because of his skill level and because I am not convinced he lets his religion contaminate his science/medicine. I think his top shelf education prevents that although there is no guarantee with folks like Francis Collins walking around loose. But I also think he can fill his card from like minded folks religion-wise. It's not a bad thing if folks think his Christianity gives him some extra edge. Positive thinking is so important. Me, I just care about his skill which certainly appears considerable. I consider him an extremely high performing individual. There are not so many folks like that.

I suggest if you had a chance to live among the believers like I have, you might forgive the spirituality if there was a high functioning individual behind it. I have learned to accept most things except the war on science and the totalitarian politics of Christianity (anti-choice, anti embryonic stem cell research, unkindness and unfairness to gays, etc., etc.). And I only had to exchange a few emails making sure the eight grade science teachers were teaching evolution and keeping their noses clean in general. Other than those things, it's been okay here south of the Mason-Dixon. :-)