Questions fo rour Clear Chiro, Smith

[Pooka1]

Why are there so many doctors who feel that bracing does work? Hmmmm? You never ponder that, do you?

Yes some think it works. They would not claim to have EVIDENCE it works. That's a distinction that is a real difference.

How do you explain my daughter's success? Hmmm? I'm waiting.

Scoliscore <41.

Next.

[Ballet Mom]

Yes some think it works. They would not claim to have EVIDENCE it works. That's a distinction that is a real difference..

Why then do you claim to have evidence that bracing doesn't work. Are you smarter than them?

Scoliscore <41.

Next.

HAHAHAHA

That's the problem when someone who doesn't know what they're talking about talks.

If Scoliscore actually predicts who's going to progress to surgical territory, my daughter would certainly be one of the high scores. Really Pooka, a 35 degree curve almost a year prior to menarche?

My daughter's great grandfather's sister with a severe scoliosis? And scoliosis on my husband's side also.

I think you don't know what you're talking about.

[Pooka1]

No no, remember? The Iowa doc told them all it was ethical because there was a mixture of thought. What's to question?

An entire panel of ethicists okayed that study, not just Dolan. And I seriously doubt they okayed it just on the basis of that one paper for heaven's sake!

This is typical of your lack of knowledge, cluelessness about specific facts, etc. and has nothing to do with intelligence. You are clearly very intelligent.

[Pooka1]

Why then do you claim to have evidence that bracing doesn't work. Are you smarter than them?



HAHAHAHA

That's the problem when someone who doesn't know what they're talking about talks.

If Scoliscore actually predicts who's going to progress to surgical territory, my daughter would certainly be one of the high scores. Really Pooka, a 35 degree curve almost a year prior to menarche?

My daughter's great grandfather's sister with a severe scoliosis? And scoliosis on my husband's side also.

I think you don't know what you're talking about.

And yet you are the one who completely misunderstood the Katz paper. And apparently the Scoliscore paper.

About 75% of people who have/had small curves will not progress to surgery territory. The chances your daughter is not in that group if she is still subsurgical at this point are low (~25%).

[Pooka1]

Why then do you claim to have evidence that bracing doesn't work. Are you smarter than them.

The fact that you think I have been advocating this is EVIDENCE that you are not following along. Or maybe can't follow along due to your emotion and lack of experience with independent thought.

[jrnyc]

my point about living with scoliosis for many years was simply that it makes one MORE vulnerable to other things happening with the spine...not that those things always happens or will inevitably happen...

all my surgeons/doctors told me that, due to my scoli, my spine is weaker than a "normal" spine, and thus i have been more vulnerable for bad things...like herniated discs...to happen to me...

i believe this is the case...i am not saying it is true for all scoli patients...

jess

[Ballet Mom]

About 75% of people who have/had small curves will not progress to surgery territory. The chances your daughter is not in that group if she is still subsurgical at this point are low (~25%).

If you can't blind them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.

[Ballet Mom]

An entire panel of ethicists okayed that study, not just Dolan. And I seriously doubt they okayed it just on the basis of that one paper for heaven's sake!

How'd I miss this?

I wasn't talking about Dolan. She's a nurse by the way, not a surgeon.

[Pooka1]

How'd I miss this?

I wasn't talking about Dolan. She's a nurse by the way, not a surgeon.

Dolan has a PhD. You said "Iowa doc" not surgeon. Dolan is an Iowa doc.

[hdugger]

There is no heat for those driven by a sober attempt to understand the evidence and accept the lack of evidence rather than make it up and try to pass it off as reality. Not that those rational people cannot be overcome by emotion but they can try to recognize it when it is coming on and try to start making sense again.

There's lots of heat from all sides, and it's completely understandable, but completely unnecessary.

The surgeons who really understand the field aren't frothing up over this stuff - they're prescribing braces when their experience tells them they'll work, and they're not prescribing them when their experience tells them they won't work. They're not locked into some ideological battle with deep emotional roots - they're just doing what needs to be done when it needs to be done.

So, the "non-emotional, rational" viewpoint is neither pro or anti-bracing - those are emotional stances - it's simply the practical stance of using something when it's needed and not using it when it's not needed.

[livingtwisted]

hdugger,

Agreed. Everyone on this site has been touched personally by scoliosis. I don't see how they could NOT get emotional on occasion. Anyone who claims to be 100% rational all the time should not be trusted.

[Pooka1]

The surgeons who really understand the field aren't frothing up over this stuff - .

And neither are the parents who understand the state of the evidence (and lack thereof). Your claims otherwise about that subset of parents are false.

[hdugger]

And neither are the parents who understand the state of the evidence (and lack thereof). Your claims otherwise about that subset of parents are false.

People driven by evidence focus on evidence. Evidence is interesting and informative

But I'd estimate 50% of the preceding discussion (on both sides) is about the participants assessments of each other. That is profoundly uninteresting, uninformative, and buries any real evidence or facts in a pile of . . . well, let's just call it a pile. I can't even follow the thread anymore or remember what it is that people are talking about by the time I finish plowing through it. The *only* thought left standing is "wow, those two ladies sure don't like each other." I suspect I'm not the only one on whom the *point* of the discussion is lost under the *form* of the discussion.

If such personal assessments furthered the cause of science, you'd think the scientific journals would be full of them - "Not only was I unable to replicate Dr. Thinksalot's results, but he's obviously unable to think clearly enough to write down the steps."

That this kind of discussion doesn't happen there, and does happen here, suggests that there's something other then clear, rational thought driving this discussion. Again, I find that understandable - nothing makes a person more vulnerable then their kid's health - but it is doing nothing to further the cause of reason. In fact, it's kind of making reason look bad.

[Pooka1]

Science is the only game in town.

[livingtwisted]

I'm not a scientist

I'm not a scientist or a robot. I don't think anyone on here should be expected to behave like one, and I hope they don't. I make decisions based on a number of factors including research, experience, common sense/logic, hearing others experiences/opinions/recommendations, and a gut/emotional reaction to what I'm willing to do. I come on here to learn from other people's personal experiences and as a resource of pooled research and ideas. Personally I'm not interested in a debate on individual interpretations of data -- I'm able to read it for myself. If you're only interested in the facts then you already have the answers so why engage at all? And don't say altruism.