spine-cor vs. Boston brace

[cherylplinder]

Structural,
Although this forum is open to all, I resent your hostile comments and verbal abuse of parents that are here to give and receive support and information.

I haven't researched your reason for being here. Do you have scoliosis? Do you have a child with scoliosis?

I don't feel that you are giving support to anyone and your "informative" comments are abusive.

I tire of your ire. Get a life.

[cherylplinder]

Structural,
Although this forum is open to all, I resent your hostile comments and verbal abuse of parents that are here to give and receive support and information.

I haven't researched your reason for being here. Do you have scoliosis? Do you have a child with scoliosis?

I don't feel that you are giving support to anyone and your "informative" comments are abusive.

I tire of your ire. Get a life.
__________________

[cherylplinder]

The parents and children that post are here because scoliosis can be extremely stressful. We need each other's support and care.


I am here because I have a need. These people have met that need and they don't deserve your abuse.

I have read MANY of your posts. They are all lengthy.

I am not about to research them all. Every time I read one of your posts it is abusive. That is enough research for me.

You don't need support OR information about scoliosis. You have no valid reason for being here.

I repeat. I object to your abusive posts.

These people have enough stress to deal with without your abusive posts. Period.

Get a life and leave these good people alone.

[gerbo]

Structural

I was going to stay out of this as none of this discussion was "my business". however, as you have decided to drag me into this (for no obvious reason)

your good pal Gerbo

I'd like to state that in your frantic efforts to prove your point you are being perceived (I am sure totally unjust and unintentionally) as aggressive, patronising, overbearing, annoying and certainly not helpful to a large group of parents who haven't got the luxury of closing the office in the evening and forgetting about their patients with scoliosis, but have to live with the condition and the distress it causes to their sons or daughters day in, day out, and with many nocturnal waking hours, even the nights are no escape. I know you are misunderstood and a victim of aggression yourself, and I am so sorry for that, but somewhere there must be some support forum for frustrated alternative practitioners you can go to get your own support.

As i have said before, I am sure you have lots of usefull knowledge and skills, unfortunately your approach to sharing this is causing great upset to many people who are stressed enough as it is.

[Celia]

If you folks are going to hold the "chiros" of the world accountable for inappropriate practices and negligence, then you should be willing to be held accountable for giving misleading statements and offering unqualified medical advice! Sharing your experiences and personal learnings with one another is one thing, but qualifying yourselves to determine what and who is legitimate is another altogether.

For someone who *claims* not to have any connection to chiropractors, you certainly spend a fair chunk of your time defending them - in particular a certain dr who will soon be under investigation for the very abuses you so passionately endorse.


Gerbo,

I agree! They should have a support group for misguided practitioners. Maybe dr. Copes can start one from jail???


******

[Celia]

Let's hope not... but I guess we'll just trust your clinical expertise on this one. From the x-ray it sure looks like a long gradual 'curve' to me. What happens to the strain from the primary curve when it's straightened with the brace? Maybe it goes on to produce a "new" secondary curve or contributes to the rotation I noticed in the x-ray.???? It certainly doesn't disappear... that would be phoney baloney.
Besides, in your other post you refered to it as a "curve". Was Dr. Coillard measuring a "kink" with a scoliometer? Do "kinks" have numbers as well?

My goodness you are so concerned about my daughter! Would you have been as concerned 4 years ago when her curve was 60 degrees and have recommended vestibular rehab to help? Maybe structural integration or weights on the head would have worked as well? Maybe her case would be beyond the scope of your practice since you deal mainly with minor curves that normally don't progress or do you claim to reverse progressive infantile scoliosis? Would you have recommended surgery for my daughter?

I trust Dr. Rivard and Dr. Coillard when they say the postural curve is of no consequence. My own copy of the x-ray allows me to see the pedicles up close and personal and they're beautiful - all the "eyes" are in full view. No rotation there! Your alarmist tactics are comical! Maybe this is why dr. Rivard and dr. Coillard are the great doctors they are and you are a schmuck!


*****

[structural75]

weights on the head would have worked as well?

Yeh, that's intelligent ?

So now you've stooped to taking shots at my profession again? VERY MATURE celia. Again, don't slander something you don't know anything about... . I will go to the forum president here if you continue degrading every option for people other than your own 'personally approved' ones.

They should have a support group for misguided practitioners.

Oh, you're so hilarious ... this has never been about my profession. It's been about offering advice to people asking for it. You may be the parents here.. but you're not the expert on every topic that arises. I've kept most of my replies on the non-surgical threads and regarding pain management. The only misguided person here is the 'parent' who believes they're a health care practitioner!

My goodness you are so concerned about my daughter! Would you have been as concerned 4 years ago when her curve was 60 degrees and have recommended vestibular rehab to help? Maybe structural integration or weights on the head would have worked as well? Maybe her case would be beyond the scope of your practice since you deal mainly with minor curves that normally don't progress or do you claim to reverse progressive infantile scoliosis? Would you have recommended surgery for my daughter?

Yes, of course I'd be concerned, who wouldn't. And no, I'm not one of you all or nothing types... so it is never about choosing one thing over something else... .Let's be perfectly clear on this lady, I NEVER recommended vest rehab for EVERYONE with scoliosis. There are preliminary tests performed to evaluate whether further testing and rehab might apply to each case. When are you going to drop the vest rehab thing? I DON'T DO VEST TESTING/REHAB!!! And now your insulting my profession again despite the fact that we do the same thing actively that your bracing does passively to the body. We just work with more precision and specificity than a brace ALONE can provide. AGAIN, here you go talking negatively about something you DON'T UNDERSTAND! Beyond the scope of my practice, ... no, it's not. Since when do I work only with minor curves that "don't progress"? How do you know what I work with? Making personal attacks about me is enough, leave your unwarranted remarks about my profession out of it.

You still can't show me, or anyone, that neurologic factors aren't involved in many cases of scoliosis.!!! Even your Drs believe it is relevant!!! So let others discuss matters, whether you believe in them or not is "of no consequence".

[amandap]

All the bickering back and forth is getting OLD!

There are parents on this board who join because they are really needing support/advice/help and if I were new I would have already been scared off.

The jabbing back and forth is taking away from the support group that once was.

It has become obviouse that several parents don't like each others points of views or opinions ~ so be it ~ can everyone please just agree to disagree. The purpose of these boards are to give people support and advice based on our individual experiences and opinions and then it is up to the poster to make a final decision. Rehashing and debating the same issues on different threads really serves no purpose other than turning people away.

Please stop.

Thanks.

Amanda

[gerbo]

you are right, sorry, not a word from me on the subject. promise.

[structural75]

Celia:I'm just naturally the kind of person that stands up for my beliefs and when some ignoramus starts insulting my doctors and telling me that I should be concerned about my daughter's 1 degree curve that's when they cross the line.

You just don't quit! Couching an insult in an otherwise seemingly sincere post... sounds familiar. And I have never insulted "your" Drs. I actually think they're doing good work. But a second opinion, or second thought, on the 'secondary postural curves' is not a bad idea. I thought you said you didn't know the measurement of the secondary curve because you didn't want to interrupt the Dr.?
Surely if this happened under the care of a chiro or another orthopedic of lesser stature you'd be all over it casting doubts and suspicions on their integrity and abilities! And everyone knows that an 'inconsequential' postural curve can have influential effects on growth plates and cause bony deformation over a period of time if left untreated. So, sorry for my genuine concern about not only your daughter, but others experiencing a common 'phenomenon'.

I'm just viewing all of this objectively... which is difficult to do, i realize, when you have a child involved and you are trusting that the Drs. have all the answers. But I don't believe the Drs. would stand there in front of their patients and admit that there is a possibility that their invention is causing some unexpected secondary complications. However I'm sure when the two Docs sit down to talk that this is one topic that has come to the table.

Celia:you are a schmuck.

Have I stooped to the level of calling you names lately? ??? Do you think that could add to the intelligence behind these conversations?

Celia:in particular a certain dr who will soon be under investigation for the very abuses you so passionately endorse.

I don''t endorse anyones abusive behavior or practice, which is why I'm constantly dealing with YOU. He isn't being accused of doing 'vestibular rehab'... . Whatever happens with all of that happens... but it's not about his multidisciplinary approaches, it's about questionable fees and procedural methods.

Having a child with scoliosis doesn't permit any of you to degrade the opinions or advice of others just because you're not familiar with it. Agree to disagree, but slander of others is intolerable here as well! Celia has no basis to be insulting my suggestions, input or advice. And I don't think that those lurking on this forum who have utilized these complimentary methods in combination with their bracing and Dr. oversight are feeling very welcomed and encouraged to share their experiences... knowing that you'll be right there to discredit them and their chosen methods. Did you ever consider that perspective?

[structural75]

You don't need support OR information about scoliosis. You have no valid reason for being here.

No, but others do so I beg to differ. And I believe that some are more qualified to be giving certain kinds of advice than others. Simply stated, Celia does not have all the knowledge to determine what is valid and helpful and what is not. There is no harm in offer my two cents on topics and inquiries that I have experience with.

And keep reading my posts, and this time don't be so selective. There are many original posts of mine that have nothing to do with you particular folks and contain NO abusive remarks. Again, if you continue to dish it out, then I'll continue to defend myself. Who are you to put others down when they're just trying to shed some insight on poeples questions?

This forum is clearly not just about support, but also about acquiring information.

[structural75]

Gerbo,

I'd like to state that in your frantic efforts to prove your point you are being perceived (I am sure totally unjust and unintentionally) as aggressive, patronising, overbearing, annoying and certainly not helpful to a large group of parents who haven't got the luxury of closing the office in the evening and forgetting about their patients with scoliosis, but have to live with the condition and the distress it causes to their sons or daughters day in, day out, and with many nocturnal waking hours, even the nights are no escape. I know you are misunderstood and a victim of aggression yourself, and I am so sorry for that, but somewhere there must be some support forum for frustrated alternative practitioners you can go to get your own support.

As i have said before, I am sure you have lots of usefull knowledge and skills, unfortunately your approach to sharing this is causing great upset to many people who are stressed enough as it is.

Talk about patronizing! Well, as evident by these 'discussions', I don't have the luxury of "closing the office in the evening and forgetting about their patients with scoliosis". I participate here because I care. And it actually keeps me awake knowing that there are a lot of misinformed and misguided people out there thanks to self-proclaimed "mavericks" like some on this forum.

Gerbo, I don't have the energy or will for another debate. Let me just close my portion of this 'discussion' with this. I think it's safe to assume that if I, or anyone else, came on here supporting a method that was effective at reducing or stopping or slowing the progression of a curvature (including bracing methods) and went on to also report that a secondary curve was presenting itself along the way.... you folks would be ALLLL OVER that individual/method, criticizing and expressing concern. If I told you that my line of work has helped slow, stop or reduce the curve in 20 or 30% of the cases but in some it gave rise to another curve.... Would you be as complacent and accepting of that or would you accuse me of doing more harm than good? Although I applaud the efforts of Dr. Rivard and Coillard, you have put them above reproach. Just a couple of years ago you folks were posting some pretty skeptical feelings toward the spinecor brace. Now the winds have changed and it seems to no longer need the scrutiny that it once endured. Objectivity is still important in all of this. My comments are not 'argumentative', but an attempt at objectivity. I'm sorry if you don't like my wording or articulation of my thoughts. But there are always two sides to the coin and it's become tiresome looking at the one. People here should have the right to promote dialog from both sides without dismissing or degrading the other. And I feel I have considered and shown respect for many different approaches... I just can't show respect to those who attempt to discredit my contributions. I have every right to defend myself from personal attacks.... but we could all do without the name calling and abusive remarks about ones professions. If we don't agree with someone, leave it alone... walk away and don't respond. I think the only time it's worth responding to something that we don't agree with is if it is false or inaccurate. Clarification can happen without name calling or negativity.

[mariaf]

All the bickering back and forth is getting OLD!

There are parents on this board who join because they are really needing support/advice/help and if I were new I would have already been scared off.

The jabbing back and forth is taking away from the support group that once was.

It has become obviouse that several parents don't like each others points of views or opinions ~ so be it ~ can everyone please just agree to disagree. The purpose of these boards are to give people support and advice based on our individual experiences and opinions and then it is up to the poster to make a final decision. Rehashing and debating the same issues on different threads really serves no purpose other than turning people away.

Please stop.

Thanks.

Amanda

AMEN!!! AMEN!!!

Well said, Amanda. The only thing I can add to your post is that I cannot understand why the folks in charge of this forum allow it to go on.

It surely DOES take away from the integrity of the forum - to the point that one parent told me privately that she no longer comes on the forum because she can no longer stand it.

We are here to share experiences and to support each other, as well as newcomers (not to scare them off). Anyone who wishes to bicker should do so OUTSIDE of the forum, lest we lose more members who would otherwise be contributing valuable information to parents who need it.

[structural75]

Request to Delete

To all,

I agree this bantering back and forth needs to stop, and I'll gladly take responsibility for my role in it. But before I delete my postings in this thread I want to be certain that nobody (Celia) is going to be accusing me of "white washing" the discussion. So here is my fair warning (welcomed I'm sure).... .I don't care about who's right or wrong... there really is no right or wrong here. Out of respect to others who have neutrally expressed their frustrations with this I'm happy to oblige.

[Singer]

Good GAWD, isn't life a little too short for all of this nonsense? Why don't the main players in this drama get each others' e-mail addresses and "step outside"?

I agree with maria and amanda, that it greatly undermines the integrity and spirit of this forum. Then again, nobody HAS to read this stuff. But I do find it morbidly fascinating -- kind of like rubbernecking an accident.