New method to correct scoliosis!! Fake or real?

[Jimbo]

That website has some good information. However, like most of those non-invasive treatment websites, they always talk about people having problems with the Harrington Rod System, which is very out dated now.

[JMayor]

Hello all, just wanted to update this thread.

I started PT at vanderbilt. They will start me with activation exercises, those that work the multifidus and the transverse abdominal. Also, some postural exercises like bringing my shoulder plates together and holding. Also bringing neck back and holding.
Today my PT mentioned that the height of my vertebrae are high and normal, meaning that the bone has not changed to accommodate the curves. This, leads me to think that maybe the spinecore brace may help me for pain, since my scoliosis is not structural.... and maybe to correct my cobb to some degree. If I am not mistaken and from what I've read, there is no chance to correct a curve if there is a deformation of the bones.

[Pooka1]

I just wanted to compliment you on your signature. You seem very organized and thorough.

I hope you find some relief for your pain. I think people like you with smallish curves but huge pain are in a very tough situation. Can you even find a surgeon who will touch you? Is fusion known to help with pain in smaller curves?

Has the source of your pain been determined? I don't understand how the pain can be due solely to a curve because many folks have larger curves with zero pain including my one daughter.

Good luck.

[JMayor]

hi Pooka!

Thanks for the compliment.

The pain in my case is a result of many things not just the curves..
Starts with the curves you see when you have a frontal Xray, then you add a flat or straight thoracic spine, meaning that I have no Khyphosis, then add flattening of the lumbar spine, add a straight neck without the normal curve it should have, add some rotation of the vertebrae at the thoracic level and you have one messed up and unbalanced spine structure. Muscles work extra hard to compensate for all this and that leads to fatigue and pain.
from what i've learned, if you have mild to moderate scoliosis, but your khyphosis and lordosis is normal, then you won't have much pain if any.

I have been looking into the spinecore now, since it seems that it would force me into better posture, which will hopefully lead to a pain free life..

[Pooka1]

I hope Spinecor works for you. I do believe the few testimonials from adults who claim it helped with pain.

When I looked at your radiograph, it reminded me of a conversation I had with a colleague who has a high curve between his neck and thorax. His description of his spine matches yours though I don't think he has anything else going on with his spine besides the very high curve involving his neck. And I don't think he has chronic pain associated with it but I don't know that.

It all sounded unusual to me but there you are with a seemingly similar situation, at least in the C and T part of the your spine.

Man I hope you get some relief. Life is too short for extended suffering.

[Pooka1]

Oh, can I ask if the pain grew steadily over teh years or maybe as your curves worsened? I'm wondering if the other issues you have beyond scoliosis developed mainly as a result of the scoliosis or developed much more quickly associated with scoliosis.

I think this issue of waiting until a curve hits a certain threshhold (~50*) is not necessarily ethical. What if virtually everyone, even those with smaller curves that are not predicted to reach 50* in a lifetime, develops these other painful conditions in the spine as a direct result of having scoliosis for years? I mean in some cases it seems like you might never need surgery for the curve but you still can't avoid it for these other conditions triggered by it. A miss is as good as a mile.

[JMayor]

Hey!

Yes the pain has gotten worse over the past 2 years. My cobb angles have remained the same though.. but what has changed for the worse is that now I have degenerative disc disease on my lumbar and cervical spine because of the strange forces the scoliosis is putting on my discs. That deterioration would not be as severe as it is in my case at only 30 yrs old if I didn't have scoliosis. Of course when you age, your discs degenerate, but when you have scoliosis, this process begins earlier in life and the pain increases because of this. I have no pain when I am laying down, but as soon as I get vertical.. the stress begins.

[Pooka1]

Okay I see.

Two thoughts..

First, given what you wrote, I don't think it is ethical to wait for kids (or adults) to get to 50* before considering fusion. Also, apparently, the longer you wait, the more levels you will likely need to fuse. Both things argue for a lower, if not much lower, trigger point than 50*, at least for thoracic curves. I think lumbar curves and double/triple curves are another situation.

Second, I think if you could get a job painting ceilings whilst laying on your back, you would be okay at work, yes?

[JMayor]

Oh my god.. that would be the perfect job LOL

I think that if there is evidence that shows your curve progressing rapidly and causing pain, there is no reason to keep postponing surgery. Like you said, the waiting time will come with disc degeneration and cyst creation, also vertebrae deformation. Life is too short to live it in pain... and I can tell you.. I feel robbed of many years of a happy life doing the things I love, because I am in pain... I can't speak as a parent, but if I had a son or daughter with this condition and she was in pain and progressing, i would not hesitate about surgery.

[Pooka1]

I agree with that thought.

[betty14]

Hello All and thank you for your replies...

I just came back from the doctor and got my MRI results.

IMPRESSION FROM MRI REPORT:

1) Disc osteophyte (bone spur) complex at C5-6, asymmetric to the right, causing mild cord flattening.
2) Mild changes of degenerative disc disease in the cervical and lumbar spine
3) Dextroscoliosis of the thoracic spine
4) Small nerve root cysts in the lower cervical spine, of doubtful clinical significance.

The doctor recommended that I do PT at Vanderbilt and see him back in 4 weeks. Once more I am going to give it a shot at PT, but I was already warned that the bone spur in my neck will not resolve on its own and if the pain gets worse I will need surgery. Now, the bone spur is something new that just happened abut a month ago. One morning I woke up and stretched my neck too much I guess. I could not tilt my head to the right at all! It was very painful and lasted for about 2 weeks... now, I can feel that there is something pinching on my neck when I tilt it, but it is not debilitating pain or anything, although I now know it is because of the bone spur. This spur is not the cause of the overall pain though. It is the scoliosis, the bad posture, the spur, the mild disc bulges.. I am a big mess!

To answer to betty,
Pain is located on neck, lower back and mild shoulders. Mostly though on my lower back and neck. My neck is tilted forward and straight as an arrow.
I wake up with no back or neck pain and sleep well through the night. 10 minutes into the day and I am already noticing the effects of gravity on my neck then.. it goes to my lower back. If I lay down, the pain is gone shortly, but as soon as I stand up I am in pain. It is postural no doubt. I went to a neurologist and he had no reason to believe it could be neurological.
The bone spur is pressing the spinal cord, but if I take that away I would still have pain due to all the other afflictions.
Doc said that the small nerve root cysts found on the MRI were not to worry and we all have some.

Basically.. this MRI just added 2 bad problems to my scoliosis. The spur and the degenerative disc disease. I am pretty depressed and not sure what to tackle and how.

Thank you all for your input..

I will add links with my Xrays if interested.

Hi there, JMayor:

Thanks for answering my questions.

As a PT who works with several physicians, and having done a lot of coursework regarding the spine, I'll give you my two cents.

The results of diagnostic tests like MRI, CT and XR have been shown to be of limited diagnostic value for most back pain. For example, one study (don't have the reference at the moment, but it's out of the book by Jam, "when a back goes out, where does it really go?"- can get it if you want) that looked at these reports and then compared them to the people's actual symptoms found that many many people with no pain have numerous disc bulges, degenerative changes, spurs etc....so the usefulness in these tests is in close correlations with symptoms and findings (ex. pain in a certain pathway down the leg that matches which level a disc bulge is at).

Other than finding #3, your MRI is no different than many other people's with no pain. There are many other factors at play that play a role in pain, such as muscle strength, hypertonicity of muscle, emotions, perceptions etc. Your MRI result is not a disability sentence for you.

So please do not be depressed that the MRI has added 2 "bad problems" to the picture! Almost everyone has C5-6 degeneration, because this is the most mobile segment on the spine, and it sounds like you had a bout of torticollis a while back, which is usually due to sleeping in a funny positions, so a joint like C5-6 can get fixated, causing a great deal of pain for about 10-12 days before settling. Also, the fact that you have no pain at rest is a positive sign. You yourself stated you feel that most of the pain is probably due to postural stress, and you are probably right! IMO, you need to address the postural problem over a longer timeframe and make some lifestyle and perception shifts that will help you be in control of your pain management.

Personally, I often have to councel my patients as above. If the test result totally explained people's symptoms, that would be terrible, given that no therapy can make the bone spur or bulge disappear. Yet, many people recover quite nicely from their painful symptoms in spite of this, by tackling all of the other reasons for their pain.

Cheers, from B.