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Thread: Bonesetting works

  1. #1
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    Talking Bonesetting works

    Hi all,

    Would just like to share that I recently went to see a bonesetter who managed to manipulate my bones back into the right place! He could not fix the curve in the thoracic region because he said my ribs might snap, but he fixed everything else, my ribs are a lot more even (left and right stick out the same amount), the right back hump looks almost normal, shoulders even, I am taller now too It took two sessions- one really, the second was a check up.
    Fixing the rib rotation was slightly painful, because he forces the bones into place by pressing hard, but it was perfectly bearable and definately worth it.

    Me and the bonesetter are in Hong Kong, if you would like to get in touch, let me know. BTW I have mild scoliosis, although he has worked on much worse with good results.

    Best of luck all,

    Charlotte

  2. #2
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    Hi Charlotte. Good therapy for you it sounds like. I had never heard of bonesetting before actually - so I did a quick Internet search. Looks to be a Chinese (in origin) kind of spinal manipulation/adjustment thing? Maybe a bit like osteopathy which some people have good results with. I noticed also that bonesetting is covered by some insurance companies. Are these web links what you are talking about?

    I once had a rib slip out of place and an ER doc tried to fix it (without anesthesia) man - did that hurt! I opted to let it put itself back in place :-)

    http://www.lao-kung.co.za/massage.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonesetter
    Last edited by mamamax; 07-05-2009 at 06:21 PM.

  3. #3
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    because he said my ribs might snap
    Yikes! I don't know anything about this, but it sounds absolutely barbaric. I wouldn't let anyone touch my spine like that. Thank God he chose not to "fix the curve" in the thoracic region for you.

  4. #4
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    2 sessions to get yourself permanently fixed.....sounds a little hokey to me.
    __________________________________________
    Debbe - 50 yrs old

    Milwalkee Brace 1976 - 79
    Told by Dr. my curve would never progress

    Surgery 10/15/08 in NYC by Dr. Michael Neuwirth
    Pre-Surgury Thorasic: 66 degrees
    Pre-Surgery Lumbar: 66 degrees

    Post-Surgery Thorasic: 34 degrees
    Post-Surgery Lumbar: 22 degrees

  5. #5
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    From the first web link i posted upthread, it appears that currently Chinese remedial massage (looks like bonesetting could go along with this) is offered in virtually every hospital in China and thousands of clinics around the world.

    The best way i would know to describe it (from quick Internet research) would be to compare it to what I would call osteopathy. Osteopathy was one the methods used by Martha Hawes (she actually achieved her greatest correction with osteopathy in six sessions and maintains her success with one hour of exercise daily).

    Charlotte - I notice you did not use the word permanent. Is this a treatment you will need to keep up with to maintain your success?
    Last edited by mamamax; 07-05-2009 at 07:30 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlotte View Post
    Hi all,

    Would just like to share that I recently went to see a bonesetter who managed to manipulate my bones back into the right place! He could not fix the curve in the thoracic region because he said my ribs might snap, but he fixed everything else, my ribs are a lot more even (left and right stick out the same amount), the right back hump looks almost normal, shoulders even, I am taller now too It took two sessions- one really, the second was a check up.
    Fixing the rib rotation was slightly painful, because he forces the bones into place by pressing hard, but it was perfectly bearable and definately worth it.

    Me and the bonesetter are in Hong Kong, if you would like to get in touch, let me know. BTW I have mild scoliosis, although he has worked on much worse with good results.

    Best of luck all,

    Charlotte
    Hi Charlotte, great to hear that you got good results from the treatment, which makes me really interested. Would you mind sharing the contact of the bonesetter please? Thank you very much!

  7. #7
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    Richard, Charlotte has not posted in 12 years.....It's doubtful she will respond.

    I do not remember seeing this thread years ago, but the bottom line is that there are no easy solutions in correcting spinal curves.

    I did use Chiropractic from 1986 to 2013 with about 12 different Chiropractors. Also used an Osteopath. These were alternative pain control spinal manipulation methods I used before my surgeries 13 years ago. These methods will not correct spinal scoliosis, rotation or kyphosis or lordosis. I did thousands of adjustments over the years. I have done Pneuback, Vax-D, Various forms of traction, stretching, girlfriends standing on my thoracic rib hump, inversion boots, bracing, Copes, arch tables, stretching machines....Hot soaks, ocean therapy, scuba diving, massages, and lomi-lomi, (With smoke!) NSAID's, Oxy, Percoset, Robaxin, muscle relaxers, Infrarub, Super blue, Blue Emu, alcohol, CBD, weed, Jack Daniels, Electrostim, Ultrasound, mental unwinding, and comedy....oh, and of course A/P scoliosis surgery. Almost forgot that one! (smiley face)

    I remember moving to Reno and first meeting up with my Chiro who adjusted every single level of my spine, the thoracic also, laying supine with knuckles under each level. That was incredible, it was instant removal of the binding that I had in my thoracic. The next day, I was Superman. I was also 29 years old then and had approx 60 degree curves during that time period.

    My Osteopath did a single rotational leg move that removed 30 years of tension in my sacrum. That was another mind blowing manipulative event. He did not adjust my spine at all. I don't know if he was afraid of me. I have also had Chiros that were afraid of doing some adjustments....

    I guess I have had some bone setting done.

    Welcome to the forum

    Ask any questions!

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 62, the new 63...
    Pre surgery curves T70,L70
    ALIF/PSA T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by titaniumed View Post
    Richard, Charlotte has not posted in 12 years.....It's doubtful she will respond.

    I do not remember seeing this thread years ago, but the bottom line is that there are no easy solutions in correcting spinal curves.

    I did use Chiropractic from 1986 to 2013 with about 12 different Chiropractors. Also used an Osteopath. These were alternative pain control spinal manipulation methods I used before my surgeries 13 years ago. These methods will not correct spinal scoliosis, rotation or kyphosis or lordosis. I did thousands of adjustments over the years. I have done Pneuback, Vax-D, Various forms of traction, stretching, girlfriends standing on my thoracic rib hump, inversion boots, bracing, Copes, arch tables, stretching machines....Hot soaks, ocean therapy, scuba diving, massages, and lomi-lomi, (With smoke!) NSAID's, Oxy, Percoset, Robaxin, muscle relaxers, Infrarub, Super blue, Blue Emu, alcohol, CBD, weed, Jack Daniels, Electrostim, Ultrasound, mental unwinding, and comedy....oh, and of course A/P scoliosis surgery. Almost forgot that one! (smiley face)

    I remember moving to Reno and first meeting up with my Chiro who adjusted every single level of my spine, the thoracic also, laying supine with knuckles under each level. That was incredible, it was instant removal of the binding that I had in my thoracic. The next day, I was Superman. I was also 29 years old then and had approx 60 degree curves during that time period.

    My Osteopath did a single rotational leg move that removed 30 years of tension in my sacrum. That was another mind blowing manipulative event. He did not adjust my spine at all. I don't know if he was afraid of me. I have also had Chiros that were afraid of doing some adjustments....

    I guess I have had some bone setting done.

    Welcome to the forum

    Ask any questions!

    Ed
    Thank you Ed for your detailed sharing. It must have been a huge burden that you have tried so many treatments.

    I myself have also tried many chiropractors, osteopaths, massage therapists, physical therapists, you name it. The orthopedist didnt think that I needed surgery, and most allopathic healthcare providers did not believe that my curve causes pain, but it does, immensely. While academic papers seem to not support manipulations, I suppose I just have kept trying because of the pain. I recognize some modalities that you mentioned like pneuback that I have tried myself...stretching, traction everything. I haven't had any manipulation that has really made a difference, but have tried many practitioners who wanted me to keep going back for treatments. I just do bar hanging a couple of minutes a day these days just to alleviate the pain.. I actually came across this forum quite recently, and went through every single topic in the non-surgical section in search for a solution. I opened all the threads that seemed to be informative, and came across Charlotte's post!
    Last edited by Richardc; 05-27-2021 at 02:35 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richardc View Post
    Thank you Ed for your detailed sharing. It must have been a huge burden that you have tried so many treatments.

    I myself have also tried many chiropractors, osteopaths, massage therapists, physical therapists, you name it. The orthopedist didnt think that I needed surgery, and most allopathic healthcare providers did not believe that my curve causes pain, but it does, immensely. While academic papers seem to not support manipulations, I suppose I just have kept trying because of the pain. I recognize some modalities that you mentioned like pneuback that I have tried myself...stretching, traction everything. I haven't had any manipulation that has really made a difference, but have tried many practitioners who wanted me to keep going back for treatments. I just do bar hanging a couple of minutes a day these days just to alleviate the pain..
    Do you mean that your chiropracter in Reno actually permanently made a difference to your condition?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richardc View Post
    Do you mean that your chiropracter in Reno actually permanently made a difference to your condition?
    I think you are referencing this from Ed...
    I remember moving to Reno and first meeting up with my Chiro who adjusted every single level of my spine, the thoracic also, laying supine with knuckles under each level. That was incredible, it was instant removal of the binding that I had in my thoracic. The next day, I was Superman. I was also 29 years old then and had approx 60 degree curves during that time period.
    Although chiro is not a science and chiro spinal subluxations have been proven to be imaginary, I have tried chiro myself and also had a few sessions for my horse. They are doing something that seems to alleviate pain for a while both in myself and my horse. But it is not what they claim it is (removing subluxations) because that is imaginary. It is either temporarily numbing a nerve or freeing a pinched nerve or something that will be completely explicable within medicine. But it is temporary.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richardc View Post
    Thank you Ed for your detailed sharing. It must have been a huge burden that you have tried so many treatments.

    I myself have also tried many chiropractors, osteopaths, massage therapists, physical therapists, you name it. The orthopedist didnt think that I needed surgery, and most allopathic healthcare providers did not believe that my curve causes pain, but it does, immensely. While academic papers seem to not support manipulations, I suppose I just have kept trying because of the pain. I recognize some modalities that you mentioned like pneuback that I have tried myself...stretching, traction everything. I haven't had any manipulation that has really made a difference, but have tried many practitioners who wanted me to keep going back for treatments. I just do bar hanging a couple of minutes a day these days just to alleviate the pain.. I actually came across this forum quite recently, and went through every single topic in the non-surgical section in search for a solution. I opened all the threads that seemed to be informative, and came across Charlotte's post!
    After all the years here on this forum, you are the only other member to use Pneuback. I thought it was a great, and after about 30 minutes on this system, chiropractic adjustments were really not needed since the vertical traction would get "most" of the adjustments done....It's like halo traction done on kids, only instead of attaching to the skull with bone screws, you simply put on a vest and it pulls up from the rib cage. I came close to building a unit myself in my garage. It would be so simple to do with a pulley system and a waterski vest. We used about 70# of vertical pull so it's nice and light on the legs and feet.

    The surgeons did not want to operate on me in 1975 and I saw a LOT of headshaking. And NO PT either. I was a Luque wire candidate back then. You don't see to many of these in x-rays anymore these days. We have 1 member here with this system. The rest during that era are Harrington patients. 1975-1986 ish...Dr Luque in Mexico City wanted an answer since braces can get really hot in the summer.

    I don't know if I posted this here but traditional PT was shown NOT to be effective per Shriners/Twin. June 2019
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9Ka...%27sTwinCities

    How old are you and how big are your Cobbs? If you have any x-rays, it's always nice to see those. Do this on the NSF system that way they stay on the NSF server.

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 62, the new 63...
    Pre surgery curves T70,L70
    ALIF/PSA T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richardc View Post
    Do you mean that your chiropracter in Reno actually permanently made a difference to your condition?
    No. This was all for pain control. Nothing is permanent.

    Scoliosis is multifactoral.....Genetic/Environmental, Central Nervous System.....disease.....

    When I was younger, Chiro offered a quick cheap and easy pain solution that was medication free. And I also learned quite a bit from all these guys....They kept me walking (and skiing) Been a skier since 1962. 110 areas in North America, heli skied in BC, been in 2 avalanches, been on ESPN, and did big jumps and pretty much destroyed my spine having a lot of fun. That's how I ended up at Lake Tahoe.

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 62, the new 63...
    Pre surgery curves T70,L70
    ALIF/PSA T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by titaniumed View Post
    lomi-lomi, (With smoke!)
    Occasionally, I will throw scoliosis forum related humor in as if smoke had much to do with anything....

    But seriously, I was out in Hawaii on one trip in 2007, and was in MAJOR pain and was ready to check in the Kona hospital to have them knock me OUT. It was that bad. Through my Hawaiian connections I was hooked up with a Kahuna and was done at her place in a Gazebo out in the cloud forest....She had some plants, hot rocks and something was burning but don't know what that was....It was a 3 hour session and yes, that wasn't cheap. You can't fly out there and have this done at the Hyatt or the Westin Maui.

    She saved me.... For awhile anyway, perhaps an unwinding of the mind, a mellowing out, the central sensitization of my CNS which was going haywire, the nerve signals were firing COMPLETELY out of control. I needed sleep and canceled all my dives I had scheduled. I would scuba dive and ocean swim for de-weighting and mind relaxation. Scuba diving teaches relaxation. It also teaches breathing. You can always tell when a diver is excited buy their bubbles.
    https://www.instituteforchronicpain....-sensitization

    Of course this was during the final months leading up to my surgeries.....It took a lot of pain and struggle for me to finally submit, I was losing control of my alternative methods or realizing that they were not as successful anymore. I owned a manufacturing business with 52 employees and that was a constant handful of mental problems and decisions.

    Many of the elder posters here that have had spinal fusions have done various alternative methods....the ones that waited. When they pop in like you have, it's a signal that pain might be increasing and they are looking and digging for some sort of answer or ways to get relief....If we can't have surgery at a moment's notice, something has to be done....

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 62, the new 63...
    Pre surgery curves T70,L70
    ALIF/PSA T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  14. #14
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    Thank you Ed for your sharing. I have been very held up at work, so I haven't had a chance to get back to you. It is amazing though that this forum is so supportive, and I am touched that you are active in encouraging fellow patients.

    The pneuback was not a particularly good investment from my point of view, mainly because it was so expensive, and I was not very well off when I got it. Mainly though it was out of frustration with healthcare professionals who did not seem to be able to help. It did alleviate my pain somewhat, but then again I discovered other moves, even simple ones like using my hands to manually extend my neck, had similar temporary effects. I don't have it anymore as I relocated to Asia and left it back at our place in Ames Iowa.

    Thank you for the video, I watched it and the principles seem to be similar across different schools of PT. I am 33 and actually my curve isn't too serious, it is only around 25 degrees. The problem is that it is just chronically painful. I don't have my x-rays anymore as I think they were left somewhere in Ames. I think I have accepted that mostly there would not be any mechanical improvements (though I am considering travelling to Germany one day to perhaps try schroth...). Bar hanging mornings and evenings coupled with stretches done with the aid of sidewalk railings near my workplace marginally alleviates the pain. I do not have much lumbar pain, but many healthcare providers are convinced that the certical-thoracic part does not cause pain, which it does for me. I can feel precisely where the stiffness and pain comes from.

    While scoliosis is multi factorial my hypothesis is that mine is due to physical injury. I was into outdoor activities when I was young always got injured. Doing a lot of horseback riding didn't help either as I fell a lot.
    Thanks for the story in Hawaii. I am glad you have had the chance to try atypical therapies.

    Hope you are staying healthy and productive in this season!

    Richard

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richardc View Post
    I am touched that you are active in encouraging fellow patients.
    I don't know what I encourage....hopefully, it's leans more on scoliosis education and awareness. It's our disease....years ago we didn't have internet. I remember looking up scoliosis topics in DOS. There was no support at all and only 20 or so qualified deformity specialists in the US. Of course that has all changed, now we have deformity specialists on every street corner! The amounts of denovo or adult (over age 50) degenerative onset patients is huge. These curves also can progress at 3 degree rates per year.... and the amounts of these surgeries has gone through the roof in the US.

    You have to realize that scoliosis is not an easy thing for healthcare professionals to deal with. It doesn't matter what form it is. Surgery or non surgery....Some patients will have T fusions done as teen's, and get through it and do great and skip all the pain, and some of us do a lot of pain. The aches and pains of prefusion are one thing, neuropathic or nerve related pains are another. Disc herniations and stenosis (central canal or foraminal), arthritis, and bone spurs create elevated pains and can be especially difficult to deal with. This is what eventually drove me into serious surgery at age 49 with a 70/70 S curve.

    If you do decide to travel to Germany for Schroth, I would appreciate it if you chime in and let us know what you think. I have yet to see any Schroth testimonials here good or bad, (we take both you know) which is really hard for me to believe. After 100 years, there has to be 1 patient testimonial here! ....Once again, curve straightening is a nice thing and people out there will have all sorts of claims, but take this all with a grain of salt....If you hear that someone can perfectly straighten your spine, that's a red light.

    Where in Asia did you move? I had a great Chinese accupressure therapist (trained in China) years ago that was incredible with pain. Of course she would press really hard and hold on certain areas which is painful in itself, and she would say "It is necessary" and I would repeat "It is necessary" like a chant from an Indiana Jones movie....and with all the laughs, it was an experience worth mentioning.

    It's hard to know who is really qualified and who isn't when it comes to alternatives. Most are not, but it's something we take a chance on. Some modalities are very expensive and do not offer any guarantees. If you can get in and have a positive result, it's all helpful...

    NSAID's are helpful for pain emergencies. These are prescription anti-inflammatories. You should see a medical doctor for these....and of course, never abuse, especially these. Keep these on standby in case of emergency. They do not affect the mind, and take care of about 90% of the pain. Read the fine print.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonste...lammatory_drug

    You should shoot x-rays every few years. Get them burned to disc.

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 62, the new 63...
    Pre surgery curves T70,L70
    ALIF/PSA T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

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