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Thread: Torso Rotation Strength Training for Scoliosis

  1. #676
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    If you don't have a machine for torso rotatitions, whats the best alternative? A medicine ball, elastic band, weights?

  2. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoliosisbro View Post
    If you don't have a machine for torso rotatitions, whats the best alternative? A medicine ball, elastic band, weights?
    I seem to recall either Dr. Vert Mooney or Dr. Kevin McIntire had a home exercise regime for study participants that involved elastic bands. It would be in one of their papers. I looked around a bit just now and couldn't find it but it is out there.

    Torso rotation may or may not be the best exercise for pain relief in adults which is what I am assuming you are after. Adult bracing has achieved some pain relief but you can't wear a brace forever.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  3. #678
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    torso rotations

    Quote Originally Posted by scoliosisbro View Post
    If you don't have a machine for torso rotatitions, whats the best alternative? A medicine ball, elastic band, weights?
    It depends on your goal, if you are trying to arrest curve progression then finding a MedX Core Torso Rotation or Cybex Core Torso Rotation unit AND a Roman Chair are necessary (possibly at a gym, chiropractors' office, or online).

    If your goal is pain relief, then you may want to consider a PT who can help determine the workout necessary. It may include a Bosu ball, Swiss ball, bands, medicine ball, or weights, but likely will include some combination of the items. In this case, it takes awhile for the area to be strengthened and then for the pain to be reduced. How long? That depends on the cause of the pain.

    A Mom

  4. #679
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMom View Post
    It depends on your goal, if you are trying to arrest curve progression then finding a MedX Core Torso Rotation or Cybex Core Torso Rotation unit AND a Roman Chair are necessary (possibly at a gym, chiropractors' office, or online).
    Other exercises like ISICO also claim to try to arrest progression as far as I know. Torso rotation has not been shown to be the most effective form of PT to try to stop progression. It might be but nobody has shown that. I don't think any form has been shown to be effective long term even if you do it the rest of your life. A yoga instructor thinks yoga is controlling her progression for example. So I don't feel like torso rotation is necessarily Scoliosisbro's best hope. Scoliosisbro has plenty of options based on (the lack of) evidence.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 12-12-2015 at 01:34 PM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  5. #680
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    Mooney/ McIntire

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    I seem to recall either Dr. Vert Mooney or Dr. Kevin McIntire had a home exercise regime for study participants that involved elastic bands. It would be in one of their papers. I looked around a bit just now and couldn't find it but it is out there.

    Torso rotation may or may not be the best exercise for pain relief in adults which is what I am assuming you are after. Adult bracing has achieved some pain relief but you can't wear a brace forever.
    McIntire had the home exercise regime. It was seldom used and none of his subjects followed-thru continuously with the exercises. It is probably just as well, the exercises are difficult to perform in a stable manner and there is no basis for believing it will be of assistance. I think he was sharing an idea/ trying to be helpful--I don't think it was part of the actual experiment.

    IMO, part of the reason the CTR exercises appear to be helpful is because the equipment isolates the muscles that need to be targeted for Idiopathic Scoliosis. I have not seen any studies that demonstrate the same or better results without the equipment.

    Pooka1 is right, CTR may NOT be the best exercise for pain relief; and I have heard that bracing has been helpful at times.

    A Mom

  6. #681
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    I agree with A Mom.

    I guess we should ask Scoliosisbro what he is trying to address (pain or progression or both) and how much evidence he thinks exist for any treatment modality.

    Scoliosisbro, were you aware that only 35 patients TOTAL have ever been studied in the world and to this day doing torso rotation and most if not all were kids?
    Last edited by Pooka1; 12-12-2015 at 01:36 PM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  7. #682
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoliosisbro View Post
    If you don't have a machine for torso rotatitions, whats the best alternative? A medicine ball, elastic band, weights?
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...McIntire/page2 post #21 shows a way to simulate TRM with elastic bands.

  8. #683
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMom View Post
    McIntire had the home exercise regime. It was seldom used and none of his subjects followed-thru continuously with the exercises. It is probably just as well, the exercises are difficult to perform in a stable manner and there is no basis for believing it will be of assistance. I think he was sharing an idea/ trying to be helpful--I don't think it was part of the actual experiment.

    IMO, part of the reason the CTR exercises appear to be helpful is because the equipment isolates the muscles that need to be targeted for Idiopathic Scoliosis. I have not seen any studies that demonstrate the same or better results without the equipment.

    Pooka1 is right, CTR may NOT be the best exercise for pain relief; and I have heard that bracing has been helpful at times.

    A Mom
    The method is somewhat described in the J. Spine Disorder...

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18600146

    AMom is correct in that it wasn't really officially used in the study protocol because it was always being 'worked on' by me. Although, by the end of the study, I had the patients using the theraband for warm-ups so transition to a home program would be easier since it was/is kind of hard to do correctly.

    If I could post a larger pdf on here I'd just post the article for anyone interested. Here is the text of the basic description from the article. (Apologies for the weird formatting)

    Diagram of the home exercise protocol. The Thera-
    Band is attached to a wall or door in some way, for example,
    by tying a loop in one end and closing a door with the loop
    and knot on the side the door opens toward. The patient sits in
    a chair with her/his back to the Thera-Band attachment point
    in a prerotated position with the Thera-Band at its prestretched,
    double resting length. The patient performs full
    arc trunk rotation that further stretches the Thera-Band. The
    resistive moment provided by the Thera-Band at the beginning
    of trunk rotation is estimated as the following, assuming
    that the prestretched length of the Thera-Band is approximately
    twice its unstretched length: 88.96N0.15m=
    13.34Nm (20 lb0.5 ft = 10 lb ft).

    The home strength exercise was simply a full range of trunk rotational motion while
    holding the Thera-Band. Patients were instructed to
    perform 3 sets of 15 repetitions to the left and to the
    right 3 to 5 times a week.

  9. #684
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    Dingo has missed his update on his son by about 6 months now after reporting for many years. I hope his son is okay and that his curve is improving or at least not getting worse.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  10. #685
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    sent an email

    Pooka1,
    You are right, with everything else going on right now, I have lost track of the time. I just sent an email asking how things are going. I hope we receive a positive response soon.
    A Mom

  11. #686
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMom View Post
    Pooka1,
    You are right, with everything else going on right now, I have lost track of the time. I just sent an email asking how things are going. I hope we receive a positive response soon.
    A Mom
    I am afraid Dingo may want to avoid discouraging other people from trying torso rotation if his son progressed while doing it.

    The thing is torso rotation has barely been studied (only 35 patients in all the studies combined) so whatever happens (increase or decrease the curve) to any one patient including Dingo's son really doesn't move the needle either way. So if Dingo's son was successful then that may or may not have been due to torso rotation and if he wasn't successful then that doesn't mean others might not be.

    Dingo said he was ready to go with stapling if torso rotation didn't work. And now he may also have the option of tethering.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  12. #687
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    remaining stable

    Pooka1,
    Dingo got back to me saying that his son's curve is unchanged. He is almost 12.5yro now.
    A Mom

  13. #688
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMom View Post
    Pooka1,
    Dingo got back to me saying that his son's curve is unchanged. He is almost 12.5yro now.
    A Mom
    Thanks for doing that. Is his son still doing torso rotation?
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  14. #689
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    Still doing CTR?

    Pooka1,

    His reply was brief, I don't have any additional information.

    A Mom

  15. #690
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    When he stopped updating the group, I just assumed his son had stopped torso rotation.

    When Gayle posted about her son who had a roughly similar case to Dingo's son, I also thought he might stop the torso rotation. Gayle's son does no targeted PT and his curve is resolving on its own. Dingo's son has a curve that held steady using torso rotation though it is unclear if he was doing it exactly as Dr. McIntire suggested. Who knows if the curve would have gotten worse if he wasn't doing torso rotation. Equally, torso rotation make have blocked the curve from decreasing. Who knows.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

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