Setting the Record Straight

[mamamax]

Well #4 isn't really out there all by itself (re: posts # 42-45) - it is within the manufacturer's web pages somewhere - just difficult to find. The web link does indicate this is within the manufacturer's web page by reading the address (spinecorporation.com/engl...dies/case4.htm). All four can be pulled up this way off site .. question is how do we get there while on site (well, is my question anyway). Ballet mom has found the case study page which has case studies #1, #2, #3, and #4 ... mamamax is not so good at finding that page is all. Guess my orthopedic specialist was better at finding such as well - he recommending this brace for me. Technology is - our greatest challenge (a wise man once told me, think he is correct).

[Pooka1]

Well #4 isn't really out there all by itself (re: posts # 42-45) - it is within the manufacturer's web pages somewhere - just difficult to find.

I didn't mean it was unlinked and physically "out there."

I meant you don't need much more evidence to doubt the published Spinecor results as some orthopedic surgeons do. One among us was a victim of this seemingly obvious mis-measurement. Multiply that times every patient and you can easily dismiss the Spinecor literature.

There is likely a very good reason why folks not associated with Spinecor can't duplicate Spinecor's results. I'd say it's because these non-Spinecor researchers are actually measuring the in-brace and post-brace radiographs honestly and accurately.

[mamamax]

I've been told (by specialists throughout the years) that cob angle measurements can often vary between one practitioner and another. I don't honestly know why that is. I do know that my Spinecor pre-brace measurement was consistent with that of my orthopedic specialist's. My Spinecor provider doesn't mind working with my orthopedic specialist throughout my treatment process - think that is indicative of a certain high standard of ethics. I do, truly, feel for anyone who has been victimized by cob angle mis-measurement. Did this happen to a Spinecor patient?

[Pooka1]

Did this happen to a Spinecor patient?

Yes, per the report.

The in-brace radiographs were measured by the poster and another orthopedic surgeon. The Cobb angle from the poster agreed with the second orthopedic surgeon and both disagreed with the measurement from the Spinecor designers.

This is significant enough that I think I will email it to our orthopedic surgeon as a confirmation of the suspicions he said were held in the orthopedic community.

ETA: the difference was well beyond the expected inter-operator error so we can't ascribe it to that.

[mamamax]

I'm trying to understand what happened here. Are you saying - a Spinecor patient went to an orthopedic surgeon and was in someway harmed by virtue of the fact that the Spinecor providers (in brace) measurement was wrong?

[Pooka1]

I'm trying to understand what happened here. Are you saying - a Spinecor patient went to an orthopedic surgeon and was in someway harmed by virtue of the fact that the Spinecor providers (in brace) measurement was wrong?

Yes, to the tune of a few thousand dollars.

[mamamax]

Why didn't the surgeon do his own measurement (i wonder)? I know my specialist would do his own, if surgery were to be the next step. Maybe i am not following this right?.

[Pooka1]

1. Keep reading. Keep researching. Remain focused. Look deeper.
2. USA physicians and business entrepreneurs are not waiting in line to market, sell, and recommend SpineCor for their patients, adult or adolescent--this is the point I was trying to make by mentioning Canada and the UK.
3. No evaluations and fittings the same day. How many times do you see a physician for a procedure and he or she just happens to have 3-4 hours to do the procedure that very day?

Joe's role is to provide us with up-to-date accurate information about all modalities, to maintain civility amongst members, and to keep us informed. It is not Joe's role, as President, whether a patient, too, or not, to endorse or dispel any one type of treatment.

Can we call you the Deep Throat of the group? Please?

[Pooka1]

Maybe i am not following this right?

I can confirm that.

This is very simple. You are avoiding the obvious conclusion.

[Pooka1]

How many times do you see a physician for a procedure and he or she just happens to have 3-4 hours to do the procedure that very day?

Or have a surgeon respond in real time to email.

Good points you make.

I am wondering at this point if any non-Spinecor surgeons take Spinecor seriously.

And I have to add that if there is alleged widespread mis-measurement of Cobb angles that was published in journal articles, there needs to be retractions of every paper allegedly involved. And any alleged parties involved in alleged mis-measurements should not be published again, on any topic.

The central requirement in science is intellectual honesty. Everything rests on that bedrock.

[mamamax]

I can confirm that.

This is very simple. You are avoiding the obvious conclusion.

Well i'm not trying to avoid any obvious conclusion - i would like a straight answer.

You said harm was done to a Spinecor patient due to provider error in cobb angle measurement. I would like to know what that harm was - in detail.

[Pooka1]

Well i'm not trying to avoid any obvious conclusion

I am one to throw myself on my sword at the least hint of opacity in my writing.

But I don't need to do that here.

Try re-reading the thread or have someone explain it. There is no point in rewording the obvious.

ETA: "There are none so blind as those who will not see."

[mamamax]

My original question:


I'm trying to understand what happened here. Are you saying - a Spinecor patient went to an orthopedic surgeon and was in someway harmed by virtue of the fact that the Spinecor providers (in brace) measurement was wrong?
Edit/Delete Message

Your answer:

Yes, to the tune of a few thousand dollars.

Conclusion - none can be made - there are not enough details

[Pooka1]

Mamamax, none of this is what actually matters to someone like you.

Getting some pain relief is or should be your goal. As Linda said, that will keep you out of surgery, not a temporary in-brace reduction of your curve which may or may not even be real given what we are learning.

In other words, forget Cobb angles and monitor your pain. I think Spinecor, in the end, might be effective at pain relief in adults. I don't believe any other claims at this point will pan out.

[mamamax]

Of course it matters to me