Spinecor Adult Users

[titaniumed]

Thx Pam

Diet is important. Willpower after not eating red meat for a month, is a tough battle. I couldnt hang. I only ate a few ounces. Jeeze

My goddaughter who is in medical school came over and looked at my cts and pointed out my stones. One is about 5/8 dia and also have 6 1/4' stones. Lithotripsy is out, so I figure Ive got to do it. BTW I posted that the views are from head to toe, well its from toe to head. My mistake.

The future is always brighter.
Ed

[LindaRacine]

On the issue of increasing insurance premiums, that's an issue that's hardly debatable. We all know that rising insurance costs are "a sure bet" unlike the investment choices that have been executed in the past by the greedy insurance executives that work at companies like A.I.G.(just one in the news)

When your $750,000,000,000.00 in the hole and funds run dry, from an insurance standpoint, paying a few thousand dollars now for a brace, is the better alternative than shelling out $250,000 to $1,000,000 on a scoli surgery.

So, if someone wants to use Uncle Ned's Snake Oil, and that runs about $100 a week, are you OK with insurance paying for it? Or, if a chiropractor tells a patient that they need to come in 3 times a week for treatment, for at least a year, is that OK? Where does one draw the line? I have no problem with insurance covering things that have been proved to work. In traditional medicine, doctors are forced to publish multiple studies in order to get treatments covered by insurance companies (e.g., BMP). If one group has to do it, everyone should be held to that standard.

Just my $.02.

-Linda

[mamamax]

And for the record - Spinecor is not snake oil, is used by the President of NSF for his children - has had enormous success in adults .. which is why insurance companies cover it both in and out of network - because it works and is far less costly over a lifetime than surgery.

May Faith guide and God, bless you all.

[Pooka1]

Sharon, I think you have your answer. :-\

Cryptic though it may be.

I hope mamamax can control her pain with the brace. That use appears promising in adults though still on an anecdotal level. But I hope she doesn't burn her entire surgical window just in case and like Ti Ed said.

Love,
Hortense F. Quackenbush
President (Pro tem) and CFO, Oblate Spheroid Earth Society

[titaniumed]

Linda
Just saying that it probably depends on the particular insurance company. Current financials might cause issues with large payouts now. Insurance companies always look for reasons "not to pay" and being broke will act as a catalyst in the payout depts. If the stocks run up, that will help out and infuse capital, but there are critical financial issues now. People need to watch their riders on their policy's here in the future.

If the federal bailout didn't happen it would have been a calamity. Imagine no insurance.

The line is difficult. If there is plenty of money, the logic would be to get the job done right the first time. Using BMP, more hardware etc. and not have future revision surgeries. If money is tight, well things tighten up. Tightening up means preserving capital.

Its not Ok with me, but insurance change and regulation is a difficult subject. Nixon ran that platform in 68. Hillary tried in 94. Where is superman when you need him? Out flying around someplace with the lobbyists?

Hi Maxine, I see you posted.
Yes I guess this is a popular non-surgical thread, but then again quite a few of us have braced, and done just about everything available that's out there like myself and we like to state the facts.This comes with our prior experiences through the years. After chatting with one of the lady's at a scoli meeting here recently, and learning that she had no options at age 61 and inoperable due to osteoporosis with a 95 degree curve, crying her eyes out, Its something Id thought Id mention. That will stick in my mind forever.

If you have trouble collecting from your ins co, the Florida insurance commissioner will help you out. They are the insurance police for the state of Florida. Been there done that.

Hope you stay pain free.
Ed

[green m&m]

Insurers requiring evidence before covering treatment adds an extra layer of protection for the patients -- as backward as that might sound...

If insurers covered everything, there won't be much stopping proliferation of ineffective/unproven treatments seeping into the healthcare market.

I do wish that insurance companies were faster to adhere to new clinical protocols, but since newer treatments tend to cost more, they like to drag their feet as long as possible.

[txmarinemom]

If you want to see the erased text ...

If anyone wants to read the rants maramax/Maxene erased, they're ALL available at ...

http://www.box.net/shared/zr0akpi0l4
http://www.box.net/shared/fkcr0f24ra
http://www.box.net/shared/tqar1spxbj

Silly to think you don't leave a footprint, mamamax ... Your words are captured for anyone who wants to view them.

[mamamax]

Thank you Pam for the well done reference - better than i could have done, and saved me a lot of time. I have forwarded them to Joseph O'Brien (President and CEO of the National Scoliosis Foundation) with whom i was corresponding with last evening. Hopefully his schedule will soon allow him to review the entire situation and at my request, remove both threads in the interest of protecting the Sinecor name from the negative backlash experienced in this forum. Also hopefully, the IT department will be able to prove i did not spam your mailbox as you told this forum. Joe encouraged me to keep posting which i do not really have the stomach for in an environment of an alpha female and wolf pack, but i have put the situation in God's hands, He has moved in mysterious ways, and i am compelled to post yet another final statement for those seeking to share the adult Spinecor experience, or for those truly interested in hearing about it.

As those following this post are aware, i've been experiencing a very interesting phenomena - and that is a "feeling" of being progressively taller each morning (wearing schedule is at 6 hours a day over 10 days). The curiosity of this has caused me to measure the feeling and it has shown progressively accurate. Fitting height was 4'9". This morning the measurement was 5'. Significant from the standpoint that curvature progression/correction (for me and this condition over the last 43 years) has always gone hand in hand. Very curious what first follow up statistics will show.

The brace continues to serve as phenomenal support for me and significantly reduce my pain. I am certain the height phenomena is not something each and every adult person would experience - each scoliosis case is unique - this is only my experience and over the next decade or so, it will be interesting to see the statistics on that - or find out what percentage of adult patients duplicate a similar experience. Certainly the current reported majority at this point do experience the pain relief afforded by the brace, and some experience more - but, again not all. Making the brace in my estimation - viable enough for one to look into should they choose bracing as a treatment option. Some reports indicate there may be in some cases permanent out of brace correction - but these findings are few, if not rare, and are not fully computed and/or measurable on any large scale ... again, because each scoliosis case is so unique, those looking into this brace as their treatment should be conservative in their goals. I was only seeking pain relief - have found that thus far along with a phenomena that may offer more - way too early to confirm.

You are right Joe - it takes tremendous courage to share this learning experience - for so many reasons, on so many levels. I have put this situation in God's hands - and found (once again) that God does move in many mysterious ways.

Note: After more careful review days after posting this - must admit amid the name calling and false accusations - i may have misread a message from Pam (or the original may have been edited) - the word spam does not appear to have been used at this time .. falsehoods remain however about me, via the said name calling and false accusations as documented in both threads.

[tonibunny]

Hi Mamamax,

Don't worry, speaking as a complete outsider I haven't really seen any negative backlash against Spinecor going on here. So I don't think you need to worry so much It just appears that you feel you may see some correction in this brace, but others here have pointed out that there is no evidence to suggest that there is any non-surgical treatment that can do this for adults with scoliosis - not just Spinecor - and that the makers of Spinecor themselves say that their brace cannot do this. Quite rightly, there are many people here who want to caution others against putting hope in unevidenced treatments, when doing so could be very dangerous in some cases. I'm sure you can understand that

It will be interesting to see how you get on after two years. You might be interested to know that when I wear my custom-made fabric lumbar support brace I gain an inch in height too, although my spine is fused from T1-L3 and so this can't be down to a correction in curvature; my consultant says that it is because my remaining discs are very degenerated so without the brace the unfused vertebrae are somewhat collapsed down onto each other. I've actually been able to permantently gain some of my height back again myself by doing exercises to build my core stability muscles, which act as a sort of "internal corset" - it could be that the Spinecor is working in a similar way for you?

Good luck, I'd be interested to hear from the other people you've been in touch with who have actually been able to permanently correct their spines by using Spinecor - how did you get in touch with them? Have anyone spoken to the Spinecor company themselves about this? I think they'd be very interested to know, so they can run proper clinical trials to provide proof.

Regards,

Toni

[Karen Ocker]

I worry too, Maxine

Maxine:

I do worry about your window of opportunity for a permanent improvement brace-free future. It's great to get relief but can you really envision the next 20-30 years using a brace with possible arthritic joints and memory lapses??? What if your spine becomes so arthritic that it no longer listens to the brace and you are 62 with low lung capacity and cannot take the necessary anesthetic?

I faced such a decision at age 59 about my own situation. I was getting increasingly out of breath with my triple curves.

I am a medical professional-with a lot more education than a chiropractor(see my info) and knew, more than the average person, what the risks were. Was I scared?--of course but fear is an enemy of good decisions. Yet, I went ahead. I never regretted my decision. I found the best doctor for me.

Be aware of the fact, that if you think you can always have the surgery later on, the risks increase with age. Surgery for scoliosis is being done in persons in their 60s and 70s but the younger the better and it becomes harder to find doctors covered by Medicare for such surgeries.

[mamamax]

Hi Mamamax,

Don't worry, speaking as a complete outsider I haven't really seen any negative backlash against Spinecor going on here. So I don't think you need to worry so much It just appears that you feel you may see some correction in this brace, but others here have pointed out that there is no evidence to suggest that there is any non-surgical treatment that can do this for adults with scoliosis - not just Spinecor - and that the makers of Spinecor themselves say that their brace cannot do this. Quite rightly, there are many people here who want to caution others against putting hope in unevidenced treatments, when doing so could be very dangerous in some cases. I'm sure you can understand that

It will be interesting to see how you get on after two years. You might be interested to know that when I wear my custom-made fabric lumbar support brace I gain an inch in height too, although my spine is fused from T1-L3 and so this can't be down to a correction in curvature; my consultant says that it is because my remaining discs are very degenerated so without the brace the unfused vertebrae are somewhat collapsed down onto each other. I've actually been able to permantently gain some of my height back again myself by doing exercises to build my core stability muscles, which act as a sort of "internal corset" - it could be that the Spinecor is working in a similar way for you?

Good luck, I'd be interested to hear from the other people you've been in touch with who have actually been able to permanently correct their spines by using Spinecor - how did you get in touch with them? Have anyone spoken to the Spinecor company themselves about this? I think they'd be very interested to know, so they can run proper clinical trials to provide proof.

Regards,

Toni

Thank you for the posting Toni - very interesting information regarding your bracing experience - i'm guessing the height phenomenon we both experience is effected by flexibility of our spines? What is the name of the brace you are wearing?

Extremely interested in the exercises you mentioned - and congrats to you on the success! Is there somewhere i can find these exercises?

If you wish to correspond privately i will be glad to give you the information you requested.

Sinerely -

p.s. In my above reporting of initial height measurement i have corrected a typo - the correct measurement was 4'9 ... 4'11 was my height one year ago. Will learn to have a second cup of coffee before posting in the morning

[mamamax]

Maxine:

I do worry about your window of opportunity for a permanent improvement brace-free future. It's great to get relief but can you really envision the next 20-30 years using a brace with possible arthritic joints and memory lapses??? What if your spine becomes so arthritic that it no longer listens to the brace and you are 62 with low lung capacity and cannot take the necessary anesthetic?

I faced such a decision at age 59 about my own situation. I was getting increasingly out of breath with my triple curves.

I am a medical professional-with a lot more education than a chiropractor(see my info) and knew, more than the average person, what the risks were. Was I scared?--of course but fear is an enemy of good decisions. Yet, I went ahead. I never regretted my decision. I found the best doctor for me.

Be aware of the fact, that if you think you can always have the surgery later on, the risks increase with age. Surgery for scoliosis is being done in persons in their 60s and 70s but the younger the better and it becomes harder to find doctors covered by Medicare for such surgeries.

Thank you Karen for your sharing. You know, i'm not expertly aware of what the future may hold for me regarding possible arthritic joints and memory lapses but will discuss them with my spine specialist next visit (he and my brace provider will be working together), so thank you for bringing this information to light. I suppose the other side is - what would happen if i elected surgery and in the end experienced the same thing as a result of the body working against fusion from top to bottom (which would be my protocol). If these things do happen - i'm screwed either way. Going into my current treatment, it was with the privately held (with my maker) goal of preventing total spinal collapse in the years ahead. None of us can see the future for our conditions - making our conditions uniquely challenging over the course of a lifetime, that is a fact. Good points (both yours and mine) to ponder.

[tonibunny]

Thank you for the posting Toni - very interesting information regarding your bracing experience - i'm guessing the height phenomenon we both experience is effected by flexibility of our spines? What is the name of the brace you are wearing?

Extremely interested in the exercises you mentioned - and congrats to you on the success! Is there somewhere i can find these exercises?

If you wish to correspond privately i will be glad to give you the information you requested.

Sinerely -

Hi Mamamax,

Well, that's the thing. I have no flexibility; my spine is fused solid all the way down from T1 down to L3, and the L4 facet joint is now so damaged that it cannot bend. I effectively move using my L4-L5 and L5-S1 joints ONLY, and there is no curve in this region (the apex of my lumbar curve is at L2) - I have nothing left that could possibly be corrected. As I said above, the height I was able to regain is down to me using the brace, and latterly my muscles, to compensate for the loss of height due to degenerated lumbar discs. I am wondering if your brace is doing the same for you.

The brace I have is just a fabric lumbar support that my hospital made for me to aid pain relief. It isn't anything specific for scoliosis and isn't intended to correct my curves. I don't really bother wearing it anymore because my core stability muscles are now able to do the same job NB I'm currently waiting for surgery to fix the damaged L3-L4 joint and my surgeon will be placing a cage into the space where the disc went, which will replace the height I should have had if that disc had been healthy.

The core stabilising exercises are basic pilates exercises that can be found all over the web, I'll find a link for you. It's good for everyone to have a strong core, not just for people with scoliosis

[mamamax]

Thank you Toni - yes, i thought pilates may be what you are using .. i am using those on a somewhat limited basis also. Daughter is a certified instructor and has seen how this helps her scoliosis students.

Thank you also for sharing the info on flexibility degree/height phenomenon - making a note to discuss this both with my brace provider and spine specialist in regards to my individual condition.

Very best to you with your upcoming surgery, will hold you in my prayers, please keep us posted on a sincerely looked for success.

[Pooka1]

but i have put the situation in God's hands, He has moved in mysterious ways,

You're not kidding. Would you ask him to quit with all these kids suffering with scoliosis?

Oh and can you put in a good word for the circus elephants? They are suffering needlessly also.

Thanks in advance.

sharon