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  • #61
    am I missing something?????

    "It's everyone's responsibility to try to help out those who might be taken in by the latest UNPROVED CURE"

    Am I being too simple minded to say..
    HOW CAN SOMETHING BE PROVED IF IT IS NEVER TRIED!!!!!!!

    Everyone can remember back to the Wright brothers (5th grade history)....Dr. Lister....Robert Fulton(steam engine)...almost ALL advances in Science are met with this very attitude of" it has never been done therefore forget it."

    I just don't see how Scoliosis treatments can improve if people like Maxene DON"T step up to the plate and give some new things a try !!!!

    Even if it fails, we may LEARN something from it to help in the future......Come on, I want something more to offer my grandkids(who may get it) then watch, wait, brace, fuse.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by hope404 View Post
      Am I being too simple minded to say..
      HOW CAN SOMETHING BE PROVED IF IT IS NEVER TRIED!!!!!!!
      Hope, do you *really* know none of us tried alternatives before we bit the bullet? Believe me ... surgery was NOT on my "to-do" list ... and I'm *not* simple-minded.

      Most of us *likely* tried them all (ineffective alternatives). Don't assume (or scream) at us because you're still in that "that stage".

      Best to you.

      Pam
      Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
      AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


      41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
      Pre-op ±53°, Post-op < 20°
      Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


      VIEW MY X-RAYS
      EMAIL ME

      Comment


      • #63
        Thanks Linda!!

        I looked over the links you sent...Thanks...actually I could see some wedging in some of the good xrays they showed...but you were right, it does appear to be much more pronounced in the more severe cases. Which makes sense.

        BUT,(got to love research), they WERE able to correct it!!!!! when forces were reversed in a RAT TAIL MODEL!!!! Maybe that rat tail is on to something!!HaHaNEVER KNOW!!!!!

        Comment


        • #64
          Hi Hope...

          As mentioned above, I have no problem with Maxine trying the Spinecor brace. I just happen to believe it's irresponsible for anyone to encourage others to do the same, until there is some proof that it works. And, since the medical community believes this won't work, I'd prefer that insurance companies not pay for it, since it raises my rates.

          --Linda
          Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
          Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

          Comment


          • #65
            I am simple minded!!!!

            Txmarinemom....
            Believe me, I don't believe anyone jumps with GLEE to get spinal surgery OF ANY TYPE!!! And I believe many case can ONLY be helped by it!!!
            I'm so thankful the surgeons are perfecting it and improving it and people like you are blazing the trail that says a WONDERFUL life can be lived afterwards!!
            I enjoy reading all the success stories...my grandkids may need it someday

            I guess I just empathize with the LACK OF OPTIONS... I just don't see how more will be found, if someone doesn't give something new a shot.

            As far as Spinecore making permanent change in an adult
            "there is no proof that it works...the medical community believes this won't work" (LindaRacine)

            I just can't fault someone for trying..I know I almost did with my skeletally mature daughter...

            Comment


            • #66
              Hope, all I know is it's long been proven a skeletally mature spine cannot be permanently altered without surgery.

              The first path most adults try is NON-surgical ... we have mostly managed to avoid it in adulthood, and regardless of how we're perceived by some here, we're initially opposed to it. We don't all embrace it; I did because I hurt so badly ... I would have just embraced a *different* hurt than that I'd known since age 10. Mostly, when it's said and done, we welcome the outcome.

              I can't blame you for trying alternatives for your child, and I feel very fortunate it was only me I decided for in any capacity ...

              Best,
              Pam
              Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
              AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


              41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
              Pre-op ±53°, Post-op < 20°
              Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


              VIEW MY X-RAYS
              EMAIL ME

              Comment


              • #67
                sweet

                Txmarinemom

                Comment


                • #68
                  Thanks, but I think I'll stay ...

                  mamamax,

                  I'm not sure what you're trying to communicate with identical responses to every single post - other than you've mastered the use of Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V ...

                  You've written several times (in ever-increasing font size):

                  Originally posted by mamamax View Post
                  This is the NSF Non-Surgical Bracing Forum.

                  To ANYONE who does not wish to engage in meaningful adult conversation regarding bracing as a scoliosis treatment (specifically, Spinecore/Adult Users which this thread was specifically created for): Take your comments somewhere else.
                  It seems your definition of "meaningful adult conversation" regarding your choice of treatment is "only people who agree are allowed to speak".

                  Sorry, but the "meaningful adult conversation" would not be complete without the pesky details of why adult curves CANNOT be altered by bracing. It has nothing to do (as you claim) with flexibility, and *everything* to do with the fact that a skeletally mature spine cannot be altered by bracing.

                  I find it somewhat amusing when I first posted (and wished you luck with pain management) your response to me was:

                  Originally posted by mamamax View Post
                  You are truly so blessed to have had successful surgery and before joining the forum i read a lot of postings ... you are always here for others, lending your support and sharing information regardless of one's choices. I find that truly meaningful and caring..
                  However, when "sharing information" happened to disagree with what you claimed Spinecor can do for adults (permanently alter a skeletally mature curve), your posts became increasingly nasty. You can't have it both ways.

                  Now you're basically demanding that anyone who doesn't believe what you do (despite the absence of any proof whatsoever) get out of your thread.

                  No can do, mamamax ... not as long as you are making invalid/inaccurate claims.

                  As has been said, if YOU choose to wear Spinecor for pain management and believe it can correct your curve, fantastic. It's a whole different story to tell others there's EVIDENCE (that pesky word again, I know) to prove *any* adult has *ever* achieved correction from a brace.

                  You know *why* there's no proof? Because it's impossible. Plain and simple.

                  Pam
                  Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
                  AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


                  41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
                  Pre-op ±53°, Post-op < 20°
                  Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


                  VIEW MY X-RAYS
                  EMAIL ME

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by mamamax
                    What a horrible way to use your daughters illness - as a parent myself, i am .. stunned
                    You'll have to elaborate on why you think what Sharon wrote is "using her daughter's illness". It's almost as puzzling to me as your post that used the analogy of me screaming at you over your hospital bed ...

                    It strangely seems you're trying to garner sympathy by affecting a stance of persecution. Even if that ploy were effective, your assertions of curve correction would still be incorrect.

                    Originally posted by mamamax
                    I'm here to heal, learn, and share - not engage in flaming conversation or spend a lot of time trying to ignore it (and suffer the consequences to my nervous system in trying). I'm going to use the feature that blocks someone from posting to my thread to take care of this and asking for NSF forum moderator review/comment.
                    You're suffering "consequences to your nervous system" because people disagree with you?

                    What exactly do you want the forum moderator to review? She's already commented:

                    Originally posted by LindaRacine
                    Maxine... I don't think any of us care very much if you want to pursue this treatment for yourself. But, it is irresponsible to try to encourage others to do the same without any proof that it works.
                    And lastly, I'm not aware of a feature that blocks someone from posting on "your" thread. You'll have to tell me where to find that ...
                    Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
                    AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


                    41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
                    Pre-op ±53°, Post-op < 20°
                    Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


                    VIEW MY X-RAYS
                    EMAIL ME

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      mamamax,

                      Look, if you think I'm going to make an important decision about whether to stay or quit this thread without input from Ti Ed, you have another thing coming!

                      What crust!

                      Love,
                      Galileo
                      Last edited by Pooka1; 04-17-2009, 10:41 AM.
                      Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                      No island of sanity.

                      Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                      Answer: Medicine


                      "We are all African."

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Never a dull moment around here
                        Chris
                        A/P fusion on June 19, 2007 at age 52; T10-L5
                        Pre-op thoracolumbar curve: 70 degrees
                        Post-op curve: 12 degrees
                        Dr. Boachie-adjei, HSS, New York

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Singer View Post
                          Never a dull moment around here
                          You got *that* right, sister ... and it seems to be even LESS dull on the *other* thread ...

                          http://scoliosis.org/forum/showpost....9&postcount=16
                          Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
                          AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


                          41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
                          Pre-op ±53°, Post-op < 20°
                          Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


                          VIEW MY X-RAYS
                          EMAIL ME

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            After "pushing the envelope of fat" LOL I have had a few more gall bladder attacks and finally broke down and scheduled my gall bladder removal surgery on April 30th. Its quite similar to what happens in scoliosis with pain being the motivating factor. Spinecore needs to invent a gall bladder brace. I might try it. They could call it Gallcore! A strap and a plug. He He Were talking science! Hippocrates would love it!

                            But then it would probably "buy some time" and I would eventually succumb. A capitulation in our medical battles.

                            Hi Hope...

                            As mentioned above, I have no problem with Maxine trying the Spinecor brace. I just happen to believe it's irresponsible for anyone to encourage others to do the same, until there is some proof that it works. And, since the medical community believes this won't work, I'd prefer that insurance companies not pay for it, since it raises my rates.

                            --Linda

                            And with the above quote from Linda, I have to say that I agree with her statement with a few notes:

                            On the issue of increasing insurance premiums, that's an issue that's hardly debatable. We all know that rising insurance costs are "a sure bet" unlike the investment choices that have been executed in the past by the greedy insurance executives that work at companies like A.I.G.(just one in the news)

                            When your $750,000,000,000.00 in the hole and funds run dry, from an insurance standpoint, paying a few thousand dollars now for a brace, is the better alternative than shelling out $250,000 to $1,000,000 on a scoli surgery.

                            Choices in medical decisions are very personal decisions. These are decisions that need to be examined very carefully by each individual, to achieve the most favorable outcome. Since all therapies, braces, and surgeries are speculative, one should never suggest any procedures. Evidence or not. Evidence "tends to prove", with no guarantee. It should be used with discretion.

                            Its disappointing to see some of the posties freaking at 2 weeks post. Its almost as if there should be a test that is required before selecting any medical procedure. That also goes for you Maxine, since you are 59 yrs old, and selecting a brace, you are buying time, which could work well to your benefit, but you have to consider the muscle atrophy consequences that Pam mentioned, osteoporosis which could limit any surgical options in the future, and the fact that IF you need a surgery in the future, you are using up your time as surgeries can become problematic with age. I hope you can control your pain with the brace.

                            Dr Benson UC Davis pointed out some historical stuff about scoliosis at a meeting in Sacramento last week
                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_bench
                            Just wanted to point out that tension as a force was used 2400 years ago for scoliosis. Spinecor is not a new concept. Its a wearable vertical rack.

                            We are all gamblers you know, (not me, I live in Reno) LOL Before stepping up to play craps, know your odds!

                            If only I knew how important blood cholesterol was, maybe I could have avoided my stone issues. As human beings, we try our best, and that's all we can do.

                            Having faith is important.
                            Ed
                            Last edited by titaniumed; 04-17-2009, 05:23 PM.
                            49 yr old male, now 63, the new 64...
                            Pre surgery curves T70,L70
                            ALIF/PSA T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
                            Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

                            Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
                            http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

                            My x-rays
                            http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

                            http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Sharon, I think you have your answer. :-\
                              Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
                              AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


                              41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
                              Pre-op ±53°, Post-op < 20°
                              Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


                              VIEW MY X-RAYS
                              EMAIL ME

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Ed, best of luck on your "removal" ... if it's giving you that much grief, the future HAS to look brighter ...

                                Pam
                                Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
                                AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


                                41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
                                Pre-op ±53°, Post-op < 20°
                                Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


                                VIEW MY X-RAYS
                                EMAIL ME

                                Comment

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