Clear Institute vs. Schroth Method

[Pooka1]

and as always...

[...] and we need open communication for all in an environment that shows courtesy and respect for, and by, everyone.

That's what the astrologers, alchemists, and young earth creationists demand also and they are all wrong. A lid must be placed on counterfactual material.

In the case of the young earth creationists, they are SO wrong that it is illegal to teach that nonsense in public school science classrooms.

[gardenjen]

[Linda, would you kindly enforce Joe's ultimatum and help maintain civil decorum here? Thank you.[/QUOTE]

Ditto to Writer.
My P.T. program was 90% science and I work 45 hrs./wk. for spine specialists - surgeons and PMR docs. I don't consider myself an idiot. There IS a time for considering conservative treatment and there IS a time for considering surgery. Fusion is not like having a tooth pulled. It's a serious family decision, and while most people do well, there are risks. Our family decision was to wait - with the blessing of one of the best surgeons in the U.S. (Dr. Betz, Phili Shriners). Maybe a better surgical option will be available in a few years. Maybe a straight AND mobile spine will be a possibility in the future. When you're fused, you're fused. We would like respect for our decisions and our interest in exploring new possibilities for scoliosis management, surgical or otherwise.

[MissEmmyF]

i agree with writer and mamamax...for those of us posting in the "non-surgical" section, we're not looking to hear from people that seem to be die hard fans of surgery and surgery only (hence, the section we're posting in). not to mention, some of the comments do seem purposely demeaning for no apparent reason. if that's what you're going to talk about in a thread of this nature, why even bother to post? just leave well enough alone. i do agree surgery is the only answer in many cases. however, in my case (which is probably the same case with many other people who post in the non-surgical section), i'm not a candidate for surgery because my curve is not "bad" enough. therefore, when i post in this section, i'm passing on knowledge i've gained and am looking to learn more information on "alternative" methods from other people with similar experiences.

[Sherie]

Tried Clear

My daughter was already at surgery levels when I took her to Minnesota for Clear treatment. I wasn't ready for her to be fused from T4-L4 and wanted to exhaust every option so I would have no regrets.

Having said that, I would not recommend Clear to anyone for curve reduction or pain management. The program is way too intense for every day management and I really didn't see any improvement in before and after xrays. Save your money.

I can honestly say, I do not have any regrets for trying alternative methods prior to surgery. Yes, I spent a lot of money but I have some peace of mind that we didn't jump into something as serious as spinal surgery without a lot of consideration. I don't care what other people think of my decision, this is what I had to do to be ok with everything. On the other hand, I hope that someone will read this and learn from our experience. If you need more info, you can search for Clear Institute and find a lot more detail. I also know of someone who went strictly for pain management and was very disappointed.

[MissEmmyF]

Thanks for your feedback Sherie! I was always skeptical of Clear...I looked into thoroughly and even emailed a Dr. who practiced the treatment. I've also talked to people on here about it. Overall, it seems extremely expensive and not worth the money!

[Qikdraw]

MissEmmy

In defence of Pooka and Txmarinemom they have been here awhile and seen a fair amount of charlatans on these boards trying to pass off their method as a fix over surgery. One chiropractor even stole Txmarinemom's surgery photos and put them on his web site as a scare tactic. You can understand their skepticism in the face of claims, I am sure.

Since scoliosis has no known cause, its easier for multiple claims to come up on how to fix it. We do need to be careful and really look into each 'fix'.

I did a little digging on Schroth and I found that they rely on the 'principle of posture being a factor', and they have 'theories'. That alone makes me question it. However if you can get some pain releif from it as you are already doing PT and massage, it might be something to try. Just remember though that if you stop doing the exercises they show you that your pain will come back. (if it goes away to begin with)

Have you looked for other reasons your back and shoulder might be hurting other than scoliosis? Have you looked at Stenosis or Bone Spurring as a cause? Your doctor may be ignoring other causes for pain because you have scoliosis.

My wife had major arm problems, lots of tingling and numbness until she could no longer hold a pen in her hand. They did an Ulner Nerve Transposition, where they found her ulner nerve pinched flat. However they ignored (and refused to treat) the bone spurring in my wife's neck that MRIs showed. She still has a lot of the same symptoms as before, and her neck and shoulder hurt more and more as time goes on.

So you might consider looking for other causes, just to be on the safe side, rather than just blaming it on scoliosis.

[txmarinemom]

MissEmmy

In defence of Pooka and Txmarinemom they have been here awhile and seen a fair amount of charlatans on these boards trying to pass off their method as a fix over surgery. One chiropractor even stole Txmarinemom's surgery photos and put them on his web site as a scare tactic. You can understand their skepticism in the face of claims, I am sure.

Thanks, Brad.

It's about to get UNcivil.

Writer, Mamamax, MissEmmyF - I don't even know why my name has been drug into this discussion. The only post I made was to tease Sharon about basically repeating something I'd said in another thread.

Quite honestly, I don't care what silly alternative treatments the three of you (and others) choose to pursue anymore. If you think it works for you, go for it. If you don't want to hear facts, and would rather believe some secret miracle alternative exists (that everyone you call a "surgery fan" is keeping from you just to be mean), whatever ... it's your body. MissEmmyF, do you HONESTLY think we're surgery *FANS*?

I've been trying to LEAVE this site and have all my posts removed for a few days. This seems to be an impossible task because no one's managed to figure out how to do it yet.

Maybe NOW someone will.

[MissEmmyF]

txmarinemom, i definitely wasn't directing anything at you, as i never even saw your post in this thread until now. however, i'm not trying to find a "secret miracle cure". i'm fully aware that doesn't exist for scoliosis or it would be worldwide news - as i've already said, i'm just trying to find a good system for pain relief since i'm not a candidate for surgery (which i'm thankful for). although all the negative feedback and reprimanding does keep things interesting, i'd be waaay more interested in hearing from someone around my age (26) who has used schroth for pain reduction. thanks!

[Pooka1]

My P.T. program was 90% science

Um, what's the other 10%? (she asked tentatively...)

We would like respect for our decisions and our interest in exploring new possibilities for scoliosis management, surgical or otherwise.

The only disrespect in this or any thread from me is towards the unfounded and counterfactual claims. In other words, only towards the claim to fix curves as opposed to claim to help pain.

Not all PT makes legitimate claims. Some purveyors make unfounded and counterfactual claims. Is this news?

[Pooka1]

[...]however, in my case (which is probably the same case with many other people who post in the non-surgical section), i'm not a candidate for surgery because my curve is not "bad" enough.

Why do you think that many other people are just looking for pain relief as opposed to curve reduction? Never assume rational people like yourself are in the majority... you will get burned every time (unless you live in Sweden or something). I definitely don't get the impression that folks realize PT can't reduce curves AT ALL from the people posting in the non-surgical section. Rather I get the impression most people are looking for a magic elixir to avoid surgery.

therefore, when i post in this section, i'm passing on knowledge i've gained and am looking to learn more information on "alternative" methods from other people with similar experiences.

You are clear in looking for pain relief only. Many folks are nowhere near as clear on that point.

[Pooka1]

I object!

I object to dragging Pam into this miasma when all she did was point out that some nefarious person lifted her line, almost verbatim(!), about seeing the virgin mary in a radiograph.

[Pooka1]

Thanks, Brad.

Yes. Thanks, Brad. Calmer heads prevail. You and Ti Ed are my rocks. And you rock.

()

[concerned dad]

I've been trying to LEAVE this site and have all my posts removed for a few days. This seems to be an impossible task because no one's managed to figure out how to do it yet.

Maybe NOW someone will.

Pam,
I found your post troubling. While I can’t say I agree with everything you say (or more precisely HOW you sometimes say things), I hope you reconsider leaving. I’ve only been here a short time but I have seen that you possess a wealth of information about scoliosis and are an important resource here. Among your many contributions, you have given a much needed voice to the braced child. Parents considering bracing need to hear that voice and weigh it in their decision making. My daughter, for better or worse, is not braced right now due, in part, to the perspective you’ve shared from your own personal experience.

Besides, I’ve tried to be nice to you because I figure there is a chance my daughter’s curve will progress to surgery and you are one of the key people I would be looking to for advice. I’d hate to think I bit my tongue a few times for naught. (I hope you don’t take offence to that comment but rather take it with a chuckle as intended – you have to admit, some of your comments are “controversial” – how’s that for a parenthetically added clarification).

[Pooka1]

I object to letting Pam leave.

[Qikdraw]

Yes. Thanks, Brad. Calmer heads prevail. You and Ti Ed are my rocks. And you rock.

()

You obviously have not seen my mother-in-law and I argue. Its gotten so bad I am considering fleeing the country to avoid her. lol

But thank you for the sentiment.

You, and Pam among others here have been my rock as well. Its really been a blessing to have found this site and know that others have the same issues I do.

Brad