Clear Institute vs. Schroth Method

[Pooka1]

Ultimately, you'll have to decide whether you're looking for evidence or pixie dust before you decide which Troll goes on a diet ...

You know, I am conflicted about this. Most of the time my brain tells me folks want facts. But I have been reading here long enough to sense that there are people, adults, who do want some form of hope even if it is fairy dust. It might be unseemly to constantly point this out, I don't know.

None of us are orthopedic surgeons. Most orthopedic surgeons are competent and caring.

[Pooka1]

I do know that I would rather feed a troll than feed some of these greedy practitioners who are taking your money, building you up, only to let you down. Sorry I offended so many of you by my guarded profile and secret mission.

There are no trolls here (except the folks touting woo-woo treatments who have a financial stake in them but won't reveal it).

There are no irrational people.

There are rational and irrational positions.

People choose whether to espouse rational or irrational positions largely based on their brain chemistry it seems. There seems to be a propensity to think emotionally or intellectually. And that can change depending on the subject being discussed... they can be intellectual about their finances but emotional about a medical issue let's say.

There is a large literature on how brain chemistry works. It will eventually explain everything. Everything else is commentary.

[Pooka1]

Hi..

I think it's probably unreasonable to assume that specialists should bring up every potential treatment at the first appointment of every new patient, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. About 5 years ago, there was a surgeon who invented a new surgical technique. It was all the buzz on the internet (even here), and people from all over the country were making appointments with this guy. At the SRS meeting that year, when the technique was presented in a paper, the response was a blood bath. Most of the top surgeons were certain that the technique in adults would cause sagittal plane deformities. I've never witnessed an uproar like that before at a medical meeting. As it turns out, I'm guessing that the detractors were correct, since I've heard nothing about this procedure in the last 3-4 years. Should all patients have been told about it? Should surgeons have been willing to perform this procedure because patients were asking for it? I don't think so. I think that most good specialists tell their patients about the treatments that have some proof of being effective. No matter how much we read, we can't possibly ever know as much as our specialists do, so I think we should trust them to do what's in our best interest.

Hindsight is 20/20. Surgeons are not clairvoyant. The kids who were stapled who shouldn't have been are proof of this. People who dodged the bullet should be grateful.

On the other hand, if someone goes into a specialist and says "I want the latest procedure, and I don't care if I'm a guinea pig," they probably have a responsibility to tell you about it.

Exactly. I doubt a single parent has ever asked for that and I ESPECIALLY doubt there is a surgeon who wouldn't pony up the details if asked. There is a reason experimental surgery is called "experimental."

[MissEmmyF]

MissEmmyF
The balance board is great because you can do it while you watch TV. It came with a DVD that contained a core exercise routine but in my son's case he is only 5 so we use it for simple balance practice. We use it in our kitchen/family room on a tile floor so I put a small exercise mat under it. Fixscoliosis is right about the exercise mat, it helps on a hard floor. Scott stands on it while he tries to keep it upright as long as he can. He looks sort of like this when he is on it. He usually watches a Spongebob cartoon while he uses it. We do it 15 minutes per day but he usually gets on it a few extra minutes per day for fun. We have two and my wife and I stand on them while we watch the news at night. These things are addictive. I last between 30 seconds and a minute without tipping which is probably normal for an adult.

When he started a month ago he couldn't stay balanced for even a second (neither could I at first). Today he can last about 5 seconds. He doesn't fall off when it tips, he just pushes it back up and tries to balance again. He likes to jump on and off like it's a skateboard.

The Gofit balance board is adjustable so as it gets easier you can make it higher and higher for added difficulty.

Here are a bunch of videos of a guy doing various balance board exercises. On one of these videos he does 1 legged balancing with a board on cement. That is TOUGH!

thank you. i have to admit, it does look fun and addictive! and, that's great your wife and you balance on them during the news!

[MissEmmyF]

Pooka: You don't have to know about bracing to see my point that orthopedic surgeons are on top of literature on OTHER than surgical topics. Do you see how that relates to your original point that surgeons only know surgery?

Me: Not really - I think they have to at least know about bracing too since bracing and surgery are the only 2 main prescribed ways to "treat" scoliosis. They also know a lot about the "watch and wait" method which works wonders.

Pooka: I think some are definitely suggesting at least the possibility of a non-surgical curve in immature patients in the face of no good evidence and giving the impression of false hope. Parents of patients and patients themselves have enough on their plate without that.

Me: Well, I was never the one suggesting that. And, even if some are suggesting that, I get the feeling you are not disputing it in order to not give parents and patients false hope...I think you just like to debate, plain and simple....which is fine I suppose but just annoying for other people on the forum who want to discuss non surgical options freely without all the interjections and then ultimately throwing the thread off topic.

[concerned dad]

On another thread NMFB replied to me:

Message to CD

A five year relationship is a long time, if I remember your posting correctly. If you are so holy, why did you post this, anyway? Refrain from name-calling and inferences and continue your research. You are making a difference. I am looking forward to Chapter Two.

I wasn’t sure where best to reply but since this thread is already a train wreck and what I have to say relates to both threads it might as well be here.
NMFB, I am truly sorry that I offended you by referring to you with the nickname DT. I did not mean it to be offensive. I was making a comparison with yourself and the secretive Watergate informant. I can see now how it could be misinterpreted as derogatory but believe me, it wasn’t intended that way.

Indeed I made an inference about the relationship between the NYC Chiropractors and Copes. My original post, although true, was probably “trollish” as my intent was likely to stir-up things and it really served no useful purpose, another of my many mistakes here.

I think the “holy” comment is in response to my drawing a comparison between Jesus and his relationship with sinners and was intended to get across the guilt by association aspect of the NYC guys and Copes. Again, I probably could have picked a different choice (the Obama and Ayers issue that came up during the campaign?) but I decided to go with the Jesus reference because it is well known and perhaps less controversial.

It sounds like you interpreted that Dingo (who I have to resist now calling “Augusto”) was referring to you as a troll. I am pretty sure he meant Sharon (Pooka) by the troll remark. With the exception of a few of her religious zingers (which I think she should rein in) inserted at the end of otherwise useful posts, I would disagree with him. But I do agree that a point comes when arguing about the merits of a treatment becomes tiresome and offensive to many. Sharon and I “argued” at length about bracing issues on other threads. I mentioned at the time our approach was loosely that of the Socratic method. I found it very useful and learned a lot. But, not everyone is interested in, or should feel compelled to, participate in a debate about something. I think a post like Pam made above summarizing her views is useful, not too confrontational, and should suffice.

So, NMFB, there will always be room in this sandbox. We just all need to stop throwing sand in each others eyes and remember why we are here.

[Pooka1]

Pooka: I think some are definitely suggesting at least the possibility of a non-surgical curve in immature patients in the face of no good evidence and giving the impression of false hope. Parents of patients and patients themselves have enough on their plate without that.

Me: Well, I was never the one suggesting that. And, even if some are suggesting that, I get the feeling you are not disputing it in order to not give parents and patients false hope...I think you just like to debate, plain and simple....which is fine I suppose but just annoying for other people on the forum who want to discuss non surgical options freely without all the interjections and then ultimately throwing the thread off topic.

Right. Damn the facts. Who cares about bad information? Bring it on!

[Pooka1]

I am pretty sure he meant Sharon (Pooka) by the troll remark.

Ya think?

With the exception of a few of her religious zingers (which I think she should rein in) inserted at the end of otherwise useful posts, I would disagree with him. But I do agree that a point comes when arguing about the merits of a treatment becomes tiresome and offensive to many.

That's where I often fall off the train. I have to constantly remind myself that facts aren't the endgame with some folks.

[concerned dad]

Might I suggest a post-it note by your monitor

[Pooka1]

Might I suggest a post-it note by your monitor

Good suggestion!!!! I'll do it!!!!!!

Thanks CD. You're my own personal voice of reason.

[LindaRacine]

Pooka: You don't have to know about bracing to see my point that orthopedic surgeons are on top of literature on OTHER than surgical topics. Do you see how that relates to your original point that surgeons only know surgery?

Me: Not really - I think they have to at least know about bracing too since bracing and surgery are the only 2 main prescribed ways to "treat" scoliosis. They also know a lot about the "watch and wait" method which works wonders.
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MissEmmy....

If studies on new treatments are published in reputable peer reviewed spine journals, most spine surgeons should know about them. The problem is that the research is often poorly lacking.

--Linda

[Pooka1]

MissEmmy....

If studies on new treatments are published in reputable peer reviewed spine journals, most spine surgeons should know about them. The problem is that the research is often poorly lacking.

--Linda

You know, I am coming to realize that folks actually don't know how orthopedic surgeons "operate," not just in the operating room but as physician specialists who must stay on top of the research, read and publish in journals, give presentations, etc.

I think of them as researchers who work A LOT in the field, something I can relate to from personal expereince.

[MissEmmyF]

Right. Damn the facts. Who cares about bad information? Bring it on!

i'm not saying "let's talk about bad information"...i'm talking about being able to have an open discussion freely without it getting hijacked and thrown off track.

[MissEmmyF]

MissEmmy....

If studies on new treatments are published in reputable peer reviewed spine journals, most spine surgeons should know about them. The problem is that the research is often poorly lacking.

--Linda

i agree...if fusing your spine together is the "best" option, obviously the research is severely lacking.

[Pooka1]

i'm not saying "let's talk about bad information"...i'm talking about being able to have an open discussion freely without it getting hijacked and thrown off track.

You are wrong to think that is my purpose. If bringing in facts throws the thread off track then... what? Don't bring in facts and let that train roll on?