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Thread: Clear Institute vs. Schroth Method

  1. #226
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    More interesting info...


  2. #227
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    I think the table in that link may be a bit misleading.

    Look at columns 5 and 6. We are (rich), fat, (and happy). The 'fat' part may contribute to the higher cancer and cardio death rates.

    The infant mortality is troubling, but perhaps we have the expertise to bring more challenging pregnancies to success (with a higher associated infant mortality). I mean, maybe the other countries with a lower infant mortality have a lower overall successful birth rate. It's like the hospital that takes the most challenging cases (and has success with many) also ends up with lower ratings because of the inevitable failures associated with the successes.

    No guesses on my riddle? It is an easy one (I thought). Come on, if you think you know it, post another hint (rather than give the answer).

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by mariaf View Post
    SLS,

    I must disagree that we are "disadvantaged" in America as far as health care. I think we are quite fortunate actually. For example, I don't personally know of anyone who has had to leave this country for treatment of any condition; whereas, I have heard of a LOT of folks who have come hear to RECEIVE treatment.
    Well there is a medical tourism industry in some foreign countries (e.g., Thailand) wherein citizens of the US go abroad for medical care and even heart surgery and such. But it isn't because those options are more advanced... it is ENTIRELY because the treatments are a fraction of the cost even considering the travel costs.

    Just in terms of scoliosis alone, I know several patients from other countries (UK, France, Romania, the Middle East, etc.) that have come to see (or consulted with) the doctors from Shriners alone.
    I can well imagine folks in Canada coming to the US for surgery if they can't get scheduled soon enough in Canada. The way Canada keeps its medical costs down is by strictly rationing the number of doctors and surgeons. People die waiting for some procedures.

    In terms of fewer woo-woo treatments available in the US, if that is even true and I doubt it, it may be because all states have a BBB and will prosecute folks for medical fraud. Perhaps other countries are far more lax in this department.

    Any purveyor of alternative treatments is free to gather and present evidence in an ethical manner. They are NOT free to make unsubstantiated claims that bilk folks out of time and money. Certain alternative treatment purveyors have been operating in excess of 90 years and still have no proof their treatment works (nor a Nobel for making spinal fusion obsolete).
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLS View Post
    SLS, thanks for posting those links - they were very interesting to read for a number of reasons!

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned dad View Post
    I think the table in that link may be a bit misleading.

    Look at columns 5 and 6. We are (rich), fat, (and happy). The 'fat' part may contribute to the higher cancer and cardio death rates.

    The infant mortality is troubling, but perhaps we have the expertise to bring more challenging pregnancies to success (with a higher associated infant mortality). I mean, maybe the other countries with a lower infant mortality have a lower overall successful birth rate. It's like the hospital that takes the most challenging cases (and has success with many) also ends up with lower ratings because of the inevitable failures associated with the successes.
    Yes. It's like Arizona has the highest death rate due to respiratory conditions despite having the best air quality. It's because people suffereing from these conditions GO to Arizona in the hope it will make it better for them and some percentage die anyway.

    No guesses on my riddle? It is an easy one (I thought). Come on, if you think you know it, post another hint (rather than give the answer).
    No idea other than that oil woman.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  6. #231
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    Ireland ranks above the US in that list.
    However, I read an interesting article on FixScoliosis's (hard to say that out loud with all the s's) site and saw this

    excerpt regarding Scolioisis in Ireland

    Due to cutbacks and ward closures imposed by the HSE, one student had her operation cancelled with no alternative date. The other student had been given a provisional date for June of this year but with no guarantee that the operation would be done then.

    “If either family could afford it, their respective daughters would be attended to almost immediately as private patients for €85,000 each,’’ said Mr Rabbitte.

  7. #232
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    The bottom line...

    .. which I thought about after reading the bizarre statements made by someone here that insurance companies are resting on some hint of a lack of bracing efficacy to stop having to pay for braces. Yet it is obvious that if there were even a hint of braces avoiding surgery they would be REQUIRING brace wear if you hoped to get covered for surgery given the huge disparity in cost.

    Of course that made no sense nor does it make sense that insurance companies would pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for a single spinal fusion surgery if there was a far cheaper, as effective, alternative treatment.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 06-05-2009 at 11:16 AM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  8. #233
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    Just for the record, nobody said SLS was "slamming" the U.S. We simply quoted her as saying that we were "disadvantaged" here, which she did.

    And I then voiced MY opinion (clarifying that she, too, was entitled to hers) that we were NOT disadvantaged. How is that accusing anyone of "slamming the U.S."?

    And, no I was not talking strictly about scoliosis - although that was the context in which the subject initially came up.
    mariaf305@yahoo.com
    Mom to David, age 17, braced June 2000 to March 2004
    Vertebral Body Stapling 3/10/04 for 40 degree curve (currently mid 20's)

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/ScoliosisTethering/

    http://pediatricspinefoundation.org/

  9. #234
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    sorry,
    I guess I havent been doing a good job choosing my wording.



    no other guesses about who Dingo reminds me of?
    Nick Nolte played the role.

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    .. Yet it is obvious that if there were even a hint of braces avoiding surgery .....
    Not even a "hint" Sharon? Come on, I KNOW that you know better than that.

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned dad View Post
    Not even a "hint" Sharon? Come on, I KNOW that you know better than that.
    I might have overplayed that hand a bit...
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  12. #237
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    “The bottom line...
    ________________________________________
    .. which I thought about after reading the bizarre statements made by someone here that insurance companies are resting on some hint of a lack of bracing efficacy to stop having to pay for braces. Yet it is obvious that if there were even a hint of braces avoiding surgery they would be REQUIRING brace wear if you hoped to get covered for surgery given the huge disparity in cost.”
    Pooka1:

    At this point you just make me laugh. You certainly have lots of opinions on everything.

    I suppose you must be talking about my comment (“the bizarre statements”) in which I stated something to the effect that it makes me think insurance company financial analysts are involved with the push to eliminate bracing. Believe me, I know business and I know financial analysis and if the analysts think that they may save a few bucks, they’ll be involved with analyzing it and trying to eliminate whatever it is that’s costing them any money. It’s the way the business world works.

    Obviously, on an individual basis surgery is much more expensive than bracing. But if only a small percentage of the individuals move onto surgery, it might very well save the insurance companies lots of money. A brace typically costs between four thousand and five thousand dollars. Usually more than one brace is required during the growth phase. Multiply that by all the kids that reach the level to be braced for scoliosis and that figures out to be a big sum. Obviously some of these kids are going to go onto surgery no matter what, so a lot of the cost of the surgical total dollars won’t be eliminated anyway. So who cares about bigger curves for most of the kids if only a few more will progress to surgery without bracing? There’s probably a net savings in there for the insurance companies. In fact, I think that Irish study that CD pointed out showed that curves were bigger if they didn’t brace, but it didn’t change the rate in surgery or something to that effect. Therefore, BIG savings!

    I think it’s quite obvious to me that there is a huge incentive for these companies to look for a way to eliminate bracing. Of course, they’ll conveniently not include future surgical rates on the kids that end up with bigger curves who will then have a higher rate of progressing to surgery as they age. And they certainly won’t be concerned about the look of the greater deformity or the additional pain that is caused by it. And really, who cares about the kids that might crankshaft because of no brace to slow down the curve during growth?

    The insurance companies may not be the ones pushing this, it may actually be a few surgeons. I was giving the surgeons the benefit of the doubt, which maybe I shouldn’t be doing. But I hardly think my thought process was “bizarre”.

  13. #238
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    concerned dad

    I knew Dingo reminded me of someone. An unrelated post by a member here within the last day triggered my memory. Anyone care to venture a guess?
    A hint, a true life person made famous by a movie.
    As long as I don't remind you of this I'll be good with it.

  14. #239
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    Dingo reminds me of the father, Augusto Odene (played by Nick Nolte), in the true story, Lorenzo’s Oil. It is a heartwarming story about a parents love for their child and their perseverance to understand their childs disease and discover a treatment. The plot from wikipedia is below.

    Failing to find a doctor capable of treating their young son Lorenzo's rare disease, Augusto and Michaela Odone sought their own cure. They set out on a mission to find a treatment to save their child. In their quest for a treatment the Odones clashed with doctors, scientists, and support groups, who were skeptical that anything could be done about ALD, much less by laypeople. But they persisted, setting up camp in medical libraries, reviewing animal experiments, badgering researchers, questioning top doctors all over the world, and even organizing an international symposium about the disease. Despite dead ends of research, the horror of watching their son's health decline, and being surrounded by skeptics (including the coordinators of the support group they attended), they persisted until they finally hit upon a therapy involving adding a certain kind of oil (actually olive oil with two specific long chain fatty acids removed) to their son's diet. They contacted over 100 firms around the world until they found an elderly British chemist working for Croda International who was willing to take on the challenge of distilling the proper formula. It proved successful in normalizing the accumulation of the very long chain fatty acids in the brain that had been causing their son's steady decline, thereby halting the progression of the disease.

    If you havent seen the movie yet I highly recommend it. I see a lot of Augusto Odene in Dingo. And Dingo, I appreciate you sharing the information you find with all of us.

    (And, it was S4Sarah who mentioned the movie Lorenzo's oil in another thread - apparently they showed it to her science class)
    Last edited by concerned dad; 06-05-2009 at 02:03 PM.

  15. #240
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    I haven't seen the movie, but I have to say that description does seem to fit Dingo pretty well...

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