spinecor

[Pooka1]

Wondering if I've gone over the word limit...I'll continue if anyone is following all this.

I don't think there is a word limit. I once posted a list of adjectives describing Jerry Falwell and that was hundreds and hundreds of words long. Here, I'll do it again...

On another group, someone once called Falwell a "vicious, ignorant, bigoted theocrat."

He was corrected by another person as follows...

> > You left out:
> >
> > Corrupt, abandoned, abhorrent, atrocious, bad, barbarous, base,
> > contaminated, cruel, dangerous, debased, degenerate, degraded,
> > demoralized, depraved, diabolical, faulty, ferocious, fiendish,
> > flagitious, foul, heinous, immoral, impious, impure, indecent,
> > infamous, iniquitous, insubordinate, lewd, libidinous, licentious,
> > miscreant, monstrous, nefarious, perverse, profligate, putrid,
> > reprehensible, reprobate, rotten, savage, sinful, unprincipled,
> > untamed, vile, villainous, violent, wicked, wild, worthless, wrong
> > nasty, backbiting, bad-assed, beastly, bitchy, bloodthirsty, brutal,
> > bum, cruel, cussed, defamatory, despiteful, dirty, evil, fierce,
> > frightful, furious, hateful, hellish, horrid, intense, lousy,
> > malevolent, malicious, malign, mean, murderous, ornery, poison,
> > rancorous, rough, savage, slanderous, spiteful, vehement, venomous,
> > vindictive, violent, wicked, base, corrupt, criminal, delinquent,
> > evil, iniquitous, mean, reprobate, sinful, vicious, vile, villainous,
> > wicked, wrong, barbaric, barbarous, boorish, brutal, coarse, crude,
> > cruel, inhuman, lowbrow, merciless, philistine, primitive, rough,
> > rude, uncivil, uncivilized, uncouth, uncultivated, unlcultured,
> > unsophisticated, untamed, vicious, vulgar, wild, atrocious, barbarian,
> > barbaric, brutal, brutish, coarse, cruel, ferocious, heartless,
> > ignorant, inhuman, inhumane, monstrous, primitive, rough, rude,
> > ruthless, sadistic, truculent, wicked, wolfish, barbarous,
> > bloodthirsty, callous, ferocious, gruff, hard, harsh, heartless,
> > impolite, inhuman, insensitive, merciless, pitiless, remorseless,
> > rough, rude, ruthless, savage, severe, uncivil, uncivilized,
> > unfeeling, unmannerly, unmerciful, backbiting, bitchy, evil, hateful,
> > ill-natured, malevolent, mean, nasty, rancorous, spiteful, venomous,
> > bent, caught, corrupt, crooked, culpable, deplorable, dirty,
> > felonious, heavy, hung up, illegal, illegitimate, illicit, immoral,
> > indictable, iniquitous, nefarious, peccant, racket, scandalous,
> > senseless, shady, smoking gun, unlawful, unrighteous, vicious,
> > villainous, wicked, wildcat, wrong, prejudiced, biased, conservative,
> > dogmatic, illiberal, narrow, narrow-minded, obstinate, opinionated,
> > partial, partisan, sectarian, slanted, small-minded, twisted, unfair,
> > warped, bourgeois, commonplace, conforming, conservative, demure,
> > doctrinal, dogmatic, drippy, hackneyed, hidebound, humdrum, illiberal,
> > inflexible, insular, isolationist, lame, literal, moderate, moral,
> > narrow, narrow-minded, obstinate, parochial, pedestrian, prosaic,
> > puritanical, rigid, routine, rube, run-of-the-mill, solemn, square,
> > stereotyped, straight, straight-laced, strict, stuffy, uptight,
> > authoritarian, authoritative, biased, bigoted, bullheaded, dictative,
> > dictatorial, dogged, dogmatic, fanatical, impractical, inflexible,
> > insistent, magisterial, mulish, obstinate, one-sided, pertinacious,
> > pigheaded, rigid, speculative, stubborn, unrealistic, arbitrary,
> > arrogant, assertive, bigoted, bullheaded, categorical, cocksure,
> > confident, definite, despotic, determined, dictative, doctrinaire,
> > domineering, downright, egotistical, emphatic, fanatical, fascistic,
> > formal, iceman, imperious, intolerant, magisterial, narrow-minded,
> > obdurate, obstinate, one-sided, overbearing, peremptory, pigheaded,
> > prejudiced, red neck, stiff-necked, stubborn, stupid, tenacious,
> > tyrannical, unequivocal, wrong-headed, bugged, burning, contumacious,
> > credulous, devoted, dogmatic, domineering, erratic, extreme, fervent,
> > feverish, fiery, frenzied, headstrong, immoderate, impassioned,
> > impulsive, incorrigible, infatuated, mad, monomaniacal, narrow-minded,
> > nuts for, obsessed, obsessive, obstinate, opinionated, partial,
> > partisan, possessed, prejudiced, rabid, radical, raving,
> > single-minded, stubborn, unruly, violent, visionary, wild, willful,
> > zealous, benighted, bird-brained, blind to, cretinous, dense, green,
> > illiterate, imbecilic, inexperienced, insensible, mindless,
> > misinformed, moronic, naive, nescient, oblivious, obtuse, sappy,
> > shallow, thick, unaware, unconscious, unconversant, uncultivated,
> > uncultured, uneducated, unenlightened, uninformed, uninitiated,
> > unintellectual, unknowledgeable, unlearned, unlettered, unmindful,
> > unread, unschooled, unsuspecting, untaught, untrained, unwitting,
> > witless, careless, heedless, ignorant, imperceptive, inattentive,
> > inconsiderate, indiscriminate, injudicious, insensitive, myopic,
> > nearsighted, neglectful, oblivious, thoughtless, unaware, unconscious,
> > undiscerning, unmindful, unobservant, unreasoning, unseeing, awkward,
> > backward, barnyard, boorish, cheap, cloddish, clumsy, coarse, crass,
> > dirty, earthy, filthy, foul, grody, gross, ignorant, ill-bred,
> > indecent, indelicate, inelegant, insensible, lewd, loud, loud-mouthed,
> > loutish, lowbred, obscene, raw, rough, rude, savage, smutty, tacky,
> > tactless, uncouth, unpolished, unskillful, addled, backward, besotted,
> > boring, brainless, daffy, daft, dense, dim, dim-witted, doltish, dumb,
> > feeble-minded, half-baked, half-witted, ignorant, imbecilic, indolent,
> > insensate, low, moronic, not bright, numskulled, obtuse, retarded,
> > scatterbrained, shallow, simple, simple-minded, slow, sluggish,
> > stolid, stupid, tedious, thick, unintellectual, vacuous, wearisome,
> > witless, aimless, banal, barren, cheap, dead, deadpan, devoid,
> > dishonest, dumb, expressionless, flat, frivolous, futile, hollow,
> > idle, inane, ineffective, ineffectual, inexpressive, insincere,
> > insipid, jejune, meaningless, nugatory, otiose, paltry, petty,
> > purposeless, senseless, silly, trivial, unreal, unsatisfactory,
> > unsubstantial, vain, valueless, vapid, worthless, careless, deceptive,
> > errable, errant, erring, faulty, frail, heedless, human, ignorant,
> > imperfect, in question, liable, mortal, questionable, uncertain,
> > unreliable, untrustworthy,callow, credulous, fresh, gullible,
> > immature, inexpert, ingenuous, naive, raw, unconversant, unpolished,
> > unpracticed, unseasoned, unskillful, unsophisticated, untrained, and
> > unversed.
> >
> > My apologies if I omitted some apt descriptions.

I'll post that list again to see if it hits a limit... okay it bombed ... the limit is 10,000 characters.

Sharon

[Pooka1]

Pooka1 wrote: "I have never seen a testimonial wherein a child's curves were WORSE in brace. Not one. I invite folks to chime in if they have ever encountered that on forum or in real life."

TAMZTOM wrote: "Go to page 34 and 35 of THIS FORUM. Read the posts."

I couldn't find anything saying a kid's in brace curves were worse than out of brace but maybe I missed it. Can you give me the post number(s)?

Thanks.

[TAMZTOM]

Protein for disks

one of the stuffs they went over at the spine symposium the other day was the protein which could regenerate discs..
it is impractical at the moment because the method of delivery is invasive and short half life requires it to be done fairly often..
so they are developing gene therapy or cell therapy to do this..
it'll be of big help with degenrative scoliosis..
those with scoliosis tends to have degenerative discs also and that would be also place where this would be very useful...
it actually changes heghit of disc and perhaps this may lead to some curve improvements along with proper rehab..

I'm thinking between spinecor, mooney's or other types of rehab along with above type of therapy would go a long way in improving curves with minimally invasive procedures..

Still reading through the thread. As the above post was a few years ago, I was wondering if there'd been any advances. (Diet has been another EVEN MORE rigorous area my wife and I have explored/are exploring as another piece of the theoretical scoliosis jigsaw.)

[Elisa]

In our case, the above isn't correct: 10 yr old daughter, 44 & 42 degree curves July 2011, 14 weeks exercise (we didn't know about the Chiari and SM until 10 days ago) and she's corrected to 35 & 27. Early days yet, but we proceed with conviction.

Hi, those curves are a good size considering your daughter is only ten and still has a fair amount of growing to do, especially since she hasn't hit puberty yet. That is great that you are keeping such a close eye on things b/c my son was diagnosed when he was about 12.5 and his curve was at about 47* and when he hit the growth spurt, the curve went absolutely crazy out of control fast. I have read a bit about Chiara and SM but that wasn't a case with my son so we just focused on the scoliosis itself. I hope you do keep posting about your trials and efforts regarding your daughter. Wishing you all, all the best.

[TAMZTOM]

Hi, those curves are a good size considering your daughter is only ten and still has a fair amount of growing to do, especially since she hasn't hit puberty yet. That is great that you are keeping such a close eye on things b/c my son was diagnosed when he was about 12.5 and his curve was at about 47* and when he hit the growth spurt, the curve went absolutely crazy out of control fast. I have read a bit about Chiara and SM but that wasn't a case with my son so we just focused on the scoliosis itself. I hope you do keep posting about your trials and efforts regarding your daughter. Wishing you all, all the best.

Yes, Elisa, the curves were whopping size are just sort of hit us out of the blue. 2 months before diagnosis, my daughter was winning county cross country races in age groups up to two years older. I train both my daughters at running (my other daughter (14yrs) won the National Under 15 girls Competition this summer, two days after we discovered the scoliosis in my younger daughter. She even had an x-ray for hip pain a few months before--the consultant didn't see "anything" untoward. My best friend is a heart surgeon; 4 years ago, after she complained of a vague pain in her thorax, my friend methodically checked every vertebrae and ribs...no problems apparent. I even high-speed film both my daughters from the back and side for technical analysis when training them; nothing spotted. Swimming, running, basketball, cycling, gymnastics with a successful cousin...nothing. The bang, 2 inches growth between January and June as we saw the curves one day.
I hope you and your son achieve the best, pass on our regards and stay positive, always.
I'll keep posting as we progress and all information from all these positive posters will hugely help. (I've had a few private messages that are very encouraging from wonderful members of this thread).
Regards
Tom

[TAMZTOM]

b/c my son was diagnosed when he was about 12.5 and his curve was at about 47* and when he hit the growth spurt, the curve went absolutely crazy out of control fast.

Elisa, I am so grateful that you posted; I didn't see at first that your son went to 110 degrees. Your strength reeks from you even posting on any thread. I'm so humbled. I can do the objective bit, the positive coach bit, the research and the training and the mind-numbing dealings with incompetents, etc., but, when I meet old friends or family and the talk turns to my daughter herself, I can't talk at all, all the emotion welling up and constraining my vocal cords.
Regards
Tom

[TAMZTOM]

The Schroth method requires a permanent life style change - i.e., continuous exercise which for some can be a bother - so it's no surprise to me that orthopaedic doctors don't prescribe exercise as a means to reduce curves.

I agree that training would be a dramatic change for those not so inclined, but for those inclined, it is great fun and beneficial. My daughter's is keen to run again, in her Spinecor brace, partly because, as well as loving it, she's improved her fitness and strength so incredibly much, that, within a few month back running, she's keen to return faster than she was. (Need to think of the Chiari 1 and SM implications though, so cycling and ballet are our initial goals. She's actually doing daily cycles at the moment, mentally and physically holding a Schroth type correction while doing each ride. On her bike, she accompanies my older daughter on her training runs, up in the hills.

I don't see why the adolescent growth spurt has to be feared - as Min Mehta has shown, growth can be a corrective force. I think the time to do these exercises or resistance training would be during the crucial growth spurt (or whenever there is growth) because at that point, the correction could conceivably be permanent - this is all theoretical of course.

I agree with this completely. I'll read Min Mehta. (Anyone have a convenient link please?)

Tom

[tonibunny]

Hi Tamztom,

I'm afraid that Gerbo isn't active in scoliosis support groups anymore. Sadly, despite the Spinecor brace his daughter went on to have a spinal fusion.

Min Mehta's writings mainly concern infants with scoliosis; her technique, which can actually correct infantile idiopathic scoliosis, takes advantage of the fact that an infant's bones are still fairly "soft" and so can be "moulded" with plaster casting when combined with the infantile growth spurts. This is why it's so important for treatment for IIS to begin as early as possible - the bones grow more rigid as the child gets older.

Regards,
Toni

[TAMZTOM]

Hi Tamztom,

I'm afraid that Gerbo isn't active in scoliosis support groups anymore. Sadly, despite the Spinecor brace his daughter went on to have a spinal fusion.

Min Mehta's writings mainly concern infants with scoliosis; her technique, which can actually correct infantile idiopathic scoliosis, takes advantage of the fact that an infant's bones are still fairly "soft" and so can be "moulded" with plaster casting when combined with the infantile growth spurts. This is why it's so important for treatment for IIS to begin as early as possible - the bones grow more rigid as the child gets older.

Regards,
Toni

Hi Tonibunny
Thanks for the update on Gerbo and his daughter. I hope his daughter has recovered and has benefited from the surgery.
After 4 - 5 months reading and adapting exercise and dealing with new diagnoses of my daughter's multiple, but probably interrelated conditions, my tiny brain feel saturated. I'm at a stage where I'm speed reading everything I can and hoping that my subconscious sorts it all out during induced sleeping bouts. I'll definitely read up on Min Mehta's writings (my daughter, although 10 yrs, seems to be still quite flexible in the spine) so we may derive some incremental benefit from the IIS treatments.
Regards
Tom

[tonibunny]

Do have a read Tom, I'm sure you'll find it very informative. Serial corrective casting (Min Mehta's treatment for IIS) isn't generally available for older children because after the age of three or so their bones will have "set" rigid (it's not about spinal flexibility, but the actual spongy nature of the bone itself). I'm sure that you will find some useful info in Mehta's writings though - knowledge is power after all. Good luck!

[Pooka1]

Tamztom,

Before you waste any more money please consider the following:

1. In the US at least, why is it that Spinecor is almost exclusively offered only by non-medical personnel like chiros and not trained surgeons? Solve the problem.

2. There are testimonials on this forum about how Spinecor did not hold a curve through the adolescent growth spurt. Has anyone read one where it did apparently hold a curve then? If so I am guessing that kid had a Scoliscore of <41.

Just throwing some thoughts out there.

Good luck.

[TAMZTOM]

Reply

Do have a read Tom, I'm sure you'll find it very informative. Serial corrective casting (Min Mehta's treatment for IIS) isn't generally available for older children because after the age of three or so their bones will have "set" rigid (it's not about spinal flexibility, but the actual spongy nature of the bone itself). I'm sure that you will find some useful info in Mehta's writings though - knowledge is power after all. Good luck!

Saturated mind started leaking; I'll get to MM tomorrow Tonibunny. I'm at post#800 on this thread, but go off on tangents and stay there for hours. Good day with Tamzin.
Stripped off exercising in her bikini top, she looks like a gymnast.
1) 45:00 minute early session, warm-up & dynamic stretch, then heavily modified and adapted Schroth. Today, we decided she'd graduate from the P&P class (proprioception & posture). Certificate given, moved onto what she calls her "BSE" advanced degree in "Bone Structural Engineering." Exercises designed to apply muscular and breathing force onto the apices. We combine all this with elongation and derotation. Looked good.
2) Fed the horses.
2) 50:00 minute mountain walk; fresh air, natural stretch and workout for the legs in a corrected posture.
3) 45:00 core strength and flexibilty after short BSE work.

Read a bit about our spine surgeon, Mr Ashley Cole and Mr Andrew Mills, our orthotist. After all this time, it's great to be working with true professionals.

Analyzing why Tamzin's ribs protrude during the Adams bend test, yet don't when we do full squats with a bar on her back as she incorporates a full flat-back bend to her knees while squating. Lot of information on muscle groups and ligament tightening in the comparison.

In the last 14 weeks of training, she's knocked her rib-rotation down from 15 degrees to 8 - 9 degrees (how do I make the degree sign?). My understanding is that without elongation and de-rotation, curve correction is made more difficult. (Use twisted rope metaphor.)

After building muscle on the weak left upper back quadrant (trapezius, rhomboid and latisimus dorsi, we're able to do a lot more symmetrical work on her wallbars. Erector spinae, quadratus lumborum and psoas all well improved on the lower right quadrant. Winged scapula is gone with excellent latisimus dorsi improvement, ribs flatter at the back.

She's becoming very adept at entire body exercise: e.g., on swiss ball, hands wide on wallbars, BOTH sides stretched with long arms, she breathes back left, front right and up (Schroth rotational angular breathing). Helps derotate. While derotating her ribs, both legs extend symmetrically back and up, without lordosis, this aligning her lumbar spine incredibly well despite the L27 curve. Really workss the newly formed QL and erector spinae.

[Elisa]

Love the name Tamzin! And my own daughter who is now 17 loves the name too and said that someday if she ever had a girl she might call her that.

Your brain is working overtime I can tell. I recall one year ago this month when I joined this forum and my brain felt like it was going to explode with all the information and decisions and then I'd change my mind and feel like a pendulum.

I wonder if you shouldn't start your very own 'Tamzin' thread where you could post all the details of your experiences with your daughter's scoliosis.

[Pooka1]

By the way, Spiny Mouse, Canada is being accused of being evil and homophobic because the Toronto Zoo will separate a pair of gay penguins. Any comment? :-)

http://gawker.com/penguins/

[Elisa]

Stupidity at its finest as usual. All my seven chinchillas are male and I have two pair who live together, interact, and cuddle and groom each other and they bicker too. They are very happy. I won't bring a female chinchilla here b/c that could cause a problem with my pairs, they could start a fight with each other when she has her cycle. All boys here!! Rick Mercer needs to do a show on these people, if he already hasn't.