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Thread: spinecor

  1. #2626
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    99
    Cheryl and Michelle,

    I am so sorry for your horrible news. Know that so many people here think about your kids as they are thinking about all the children we talk about here on the forum, including our very own. Each heartbreak is felt throughout the forum! You and your children are included in many prayers.

    originally posted by Gerbo,

    sometimes you just wish that somebody would just take you by the hand, sit you down and say; just do this and you'll be OK.

    all this thinking and considering and deciding and wavering and doubting and reconsidering can get very exhausting......
    Yes Gerbo, I often wish somebody would sit me down and say just that. Instead we hear...there are no gaurantees with scoliosis but this has shown to be promising.... let's wait and see... we should try this right now and hope it will work... have you heard of... do this... do that... etc. It is exhausting, but we have no choice but to walk down this road all the way with our children, and we all do just that.

    I am thankful for the support I get from so many moms and dads walking the same road with their children,
    Stephanie
    Mom to Michela ~age 12 ~VBS @ age 9 - 12/19/07 26* to 1*
    10/8/08 ~ curve is immeasurable!!
    07/16/09 ~ a few degrees overcorrected... being monitored
    12/28/09 ~ 14* overcorrected to the right
    2/23/10 ~ 12* overcorrected
    3/12/10 ~ Boston Brace at night to prevent further overcorrection. In brace corrects to -8*

  2. #2627
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,138
    Quote Originally Posted by gerbo
    just to make sure we all agree; i think there is something quite exciting and inherently logical about this stapling approach, and I know Celia thinks on similar lines........
    Absolutely agree! About your comment of new kid on the block, I was thinking of spanking new shoes for some reason. Promise me one thing...if and when my Daughter's curve progresses that you'll be there to make me smile through the darkest of times?

    Canadian eh
    Daughter, Deirdre born Oct 2000. Diagnosed with 60 degree curve at the age of 19 months. Serial casting by Dr. Hedden at Sick Kid's Hospital. Currently being treated by Dr. Rivard and Dr. Coillard in Montreal with the Spinecor brace and curve is holding at "2" degrees. Next appointment 2008

  3. #2628
    Join Date
    May 2005
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    776
    Deirdre will be fine, as long as her spine is kept straight there is no reason for it to progress. Mark my words!

  4. #2629
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    369
    About wearing a hard brace at night and Spinecor during the day - have any of you come across the theory that when lying down the spine is "out of gravity" therefore the scoliosis won't progress when a person is lying down. Some chiropractors say this and I wonder if this is true or not?

    Ruth
    Ruth, 50 years old (s-shaped 30 degree scoliosis) with degenerative disc disease, married to Mike. Mother to two children - Son 18 and daughter 14. Both have idiopathic scoliosis. Son (T38, L29) has not needed surgery to date. Daughter (March 08 - T62, L63).

  5. #2630
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    1,138
    Ruth,

    That's an interesting theory! I was under the impression and I think it has something to do with night time bending braces that it's imperative the brace be worn during sleep because 98% of growth occurs during sleep and rest. I can also see how the affects of gravity and asymmetric loading can play a role in scoliosis progression during the day and this would depend on degree of curvature.

    Canadian eh
    Daughter, Deirdre born Oct 2000. Diagnosed with 60 degree curve at the age of 19 months. Serial casting by Dr. Hedden at Sick Kid's Hospital. Currently being treated by Dr. Rivard and Dr. Coillard in Montreal with the Spinecor brace and curve is holding at "2" degrees. Next appointment 2008

  6. #2631
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    776
    personally I have always believed that the likely assymmetry of muscletone, even at rest could still have a detrimental effect, even if laying down. also, if most growth takes place at night (is that true?) then it seems imperative to keep the spine as straight as possible at night

  7. #2632
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    369
    Celia:

    If 98% of growth occurs while sleeping/resting then I guess the gravity theory does not have much credibility!

    Unfortunately Esme has heard the chiropractor say that the curve can't progress when she is lying down because she is out of gravity so sometimes we get a bit of an argument from her against wearing it in bed while sleeping!! We are insisting she wear it for the 20 hours as prescribed.

    Ruth
    Ruth, 50 years old (s-shaped 30 degree scoliosis) with degenerative disc disease, married to Mike. Mother to two children - Son 18 and daughter 14. Both have idiopathic scoliosis. Son (T38, L29) has not needed surgery to date. Daughter (March 08 - T62, L63).

  8. #2633
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    1,138
    I also read the supine x-ray can give doctors a good indication of curves that will progress and I was thinking back to the initial supine x-rays before the spinecor fitting. Here is this abstract. I'll be very interested to read the article now.

    Duval-Beaupère G.
    Institut National de la Santé et de la Recherche Médicale, Hôpital R.

    Poincaré, Garches, France.

    A retrospective study was conducted on 262 patients with minor idiopathic scoliosis, having supine angles of less than 30 degrees and rib humps of less than 30 mm at the first examination. The initial radiographic measurement of the Cobb supine angle and rib hump height, recorded during a bending test performed on subjects in a sitting position, was correlated with the rate of scoliosis progression. Scoliosis progression was estimated graphically from an angle diagram established by monitoring untreated patients for 7 months to several years, depending on the rate of progression before treatment. More than 95% of the patients with initial supine angles of more than 17 degrees or rib humps greater than 11 mm suffered from progressive scoliosis. The importance of the size of the supine angle, rib-hump height, scoliotic pattern, and state of maturation for the progression rate are analyzed. Knowledge of these parameters can be used to make individual prognoses for approximately 95% of these subjects.

    PMID: 1536009 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE
    ]

    Canadian eh
    Daughter, Deirdre born Oct 2000. Diagnosed with 60 degree curve at the age of 19 months. Serial casting by Dr. Hedden at Sick Kid's Hospital. Currently being treated by Dr. Rivard and Dr. Coillard in Montreal with the Spinecor brace and curve is holding at "2" degrees. Next appointment 2008

  9. #2634
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,138
    Quote Originally Posted by gerbo
    ...if most growth takes place at night (is that true?) then it seems imperative to keep the spine as straight as possible at night
    According to the following study,


    CHICAGO (Reuters) - The perception that children seem to grow taller overnight is likely true, researchers said on Thursday.

    Related Links
    • Study abstract: Growing Pains (Journal of Pediatric Orthopaedics)

    Scientists at the University of Wisconsin's School of Veterinary Medicine in Madison placed sensors on the leg bones of lambs to monitor bone growth in the animals. Ninety percent of bone growth occurred when the animals were sleeping or otherwise at rest, according to the study published in the Journal of Pediatric Orthopedics. "We observed this noncontinuous pattern of growth, but what was really interesting was that the bones were growing only when the animals were lying down, and almost no growth occurs when the lambs are standing or moving around," study author Norman Wilsman said. He reasoned that growth plates consisting of soft cartilage at the ends of bones become compressed when walking or standing, preventing growth. When lying down, the pressure on the growth plates is off and the bones elongate.
    Co-author Kenneth Noonan said: "This is a study that points out that growth is not a continuum. There are growth spurts, which may occur within the daily life of lambs and possibly humans too."

    Previous research has shown children grow in spurts that may last just a few days. Children sometimes complain of intense growing pains at night that emanate from the ends of their lower extremities where the growth plates are, Wilsman said. There is no treatment for growing pains
    .

    Canadian eh
    Daughter, Deirdre born Oct 2000. Diagnosed with 60 degree curve at the age of 19 months. Serial casting by Dr. Hedden at Sick Kid's Hospital. Currently being treated by Dr. Rivard and Dr. Coillard in Montreal with the Spinecor brace and curve is holding at "2" degrees. Next appointment 2008

  10. #2635
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    195
    Cheryl,

    I am so sorry for your news. Through all of my consideration of whether or not to put Emily in a Spinecor brace, I looked at the results you were having with so much promise. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your daughter.

    Celia, I didn't even think about getting another xray at that moment. I wasn't thinking very clearly at all.

    I did contact Dr. Oulette, he braced Emily with Dr. Savedoff here in Miami. Since my family and I will be driving through Georgia over the holidays, I am going to stop in to see him to get his opinion.

    Laura, good luck with your xray on Monday. I will keep you in my prayers.
    Emily's mom-11 1/2 years old
    28 degree scoliosis 9/04
    Chiari Malformation/SM decompressed 11/04
    17-24 degrees 11/04-6/07
    Wearing Spinecor Brace since June 07
    3/31/10- 29 degrees oob
    11/18/09 17 degrees in brace

  11. #2636
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    16
    Cheryl,
    Sorry to hear your result. I grew a lot in this forum, hoping you have a right path for Rahel.

    Emily's mom,
    When we were in Montreal, Dr.Coillard also mentioned that Jennifer put up the pelvic base too hight, Jennifer said that the base sometimes goes up when she sits down, I stitched the crotch bend so it would be moved.

    Elaine
    Last edited by qiling; 12-07-2007 at 11:54 PM.
    Mother to Jennifer, 11 yrs. Initial curve T38L20 07/30/07
    T31L20 09/24/07 out brace (Boston brace)
    T21L18 09/24/07 in brace (Spinecor)
    T34L28 10/26/07 in brace
    T28L27 11/22/07 out brace
    T23L25 11/22/07 in brace

  12. #2637
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,757
    Quote Originally Posted by Celia Vogel
    I also read the supine x-ray can give doctors a good indication of curves that will progress
    Hmmm.

    It's long been documented structural curves do not correct within range on bending; that's why they refer to them as structural vs. *compensatory*. And one doesn't develop a compensatory curvature (almost exclusively) without a structural curve to offset.

    Are you saying all structural curves are expected to progress? We pretty much ALL have at least one structural curve, Celia.

    Regards,
    Pam
    Last edited by txmarinemom; 12-08-2007 at 12:28 AM.
    Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
    AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


    41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
    Pre-op ±53°, Post-op < 20°
    Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


    VIEW MY X-RAYS
    EMAIL ME

  13. #2638
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,757
    Ruth, supine xrays are the primary method to identify structural curves.

    It's been well known for the last 20-30 years a structural curve is more likely to progress - and exaccerbate any compensatories.

    And that has NOTHING to do with progression - or predicted progression - other than non-structural curves don't normally progress unless the structural carries them for the ride.

    As I stated, most with scoli have at LEAST one structural curve. Just identifying a curvature as structural is minute in the bigger picture (when anticipating progression).
    Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
    AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


    41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
    Pre-op ±53°, Post-op < 20°
    Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


    VIEW MY X-RAYS
    EMAIL ME

  14. #2639
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    195
    Elaine,
    I don't quite understand what you stitched up? Please explain it a little more.
    Also , I see that there has been alot of variation in the cobb angles for all of your daughters recent xrays, what have the doctors said about her initial correction in brace being better than her follow ups.

    Celia,
    Actually after thinking about it, the doctor had already readjusted the brace before we took the xray. So that would mean the curve is at 23 degrees WITH correction. Which would indicate that there has been considerable progression. I have emailed the doc for clarification on this. Also I have made an appt with her ortho for next Thurs. and made the appt in Georgia for early January. If she has in fact progressed this much, then we may also be heading to Canada by Spring or early summer.

    One thing I didn't mention is that Emily has not grown taller in the last 6 months. Is it even possible to have this type of progression with no growth?
    Last edited by emarismom; 12-08-2007 at 07:03 AM.
    Emily's mom-11 1/2 years old
    28 degree scoliosis 9/04
    Chiari Malformation/SM decompressed 11/04
    17-24 degrees 11/04-6/07
    Wearing Spinecor Brace since June 07
    3/31/10- 29 degrees oob
    11/18/09 17 degrees in brace

  15. #2640
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    388
    Regarding growth; I don't have the articles to cite, but I had read in more than one article that the majority of growth hormone is released at night so it would make sense that most of the growth occurs at night?

    Emily's Mom, Even though her Xray was after the adjustment, if the brace was being worn improperly before and is now fixed, it could take a month for the full "correction" to kick in. My daughter had a correction when first fitted, but then a month later had even more correction as the brace did its work. I am hoping that when the pelvic base is low enough that the brace will work for Emily and her curves will reduce again!
    daughter, 12, diagnosed 8/07 with 19T/13L
    -Braced in spinecor 10/07 - 8/12 with excellent in brace correction and stable/slightly decreased out of brace curves.
    -Introduced Providence brace as adjunct at night in 11/2011 in anticipation of growth spurt. Curves still stable.
    -Currently in Boston Brace. Growth spurt is here and curves (and rotation) have increased to 23T/17L

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