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Thread: Are Some Canadian Doctors from the Dark Ages?

  1. #16
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    Exclamation

    Maybe Shaun could post his own thread and people could discuss things with him in there instead of him posting the same things in every thread?

    I don't know about you guys, but when I come online I click the "New Posts" button and lately I have been spending an extra hour online just to get through repetative discussions.

    I love coming on here and reading about people's personal experiences with scoliosis. I find this online community so helpful in that regard. But when it comes down to newer forms of treatment.. I'd have to agree that would be better kept in the research forums since most of us have enough on our minds with upcoming surgeries and the post surgery conditions of our children and friends.
    Age 28
    diagnosed at age 12
    wore a boston brace until age 14
    No surgery, was on "wait and watch" till recently. Got a SpineCor (Jan 27th) to help ease the pain.
    T-curve 73 degrees with severe rotation (curves to the right)
    L-curve 45 degrees with slightly less severe rotation than my T-curve (curves to the left)

    1994 - 5'10" - T-?/L-? (i forget what they really were)
    2006 - 5' 4" - T-56/L-40
    2008/09 - 5' 4" - T-73/L-45

  2. #17
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    Maybe Shaun could post his own thread and people could discuss things with him in there instead of him posting the same things in every thread?
    Good idea!

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by LindaRacine
    Shaun...

    You need to understand that we are not the medical community. We are people who suffer from scoliosis, most of us with large curves. Perhaps you could find a forum for medical professionals who want to debate. I'm sure they're all much more qualified to argue with someone as smart as you.

    --Linda
    I agree that's a good idea. Do you know of any such forums? When new treatments are ready everybody will benefit from them.

    I think that people are taking my posts the wrong way. I think that people are assuming that:

    1) I'm bashing all medical professionals who are researching scoliosis (not true)
    2) I'm pompous and think that I'm smarter than everybody else (not true)
    3) I'm not offering support or help (not true)

    Try to support any of the above and you won't be able to. Please read my posts carefully.

    None of these things can be supported. If somebody comes on to a forum saying he believes their are areas of research not being done that should because his own experience with scoliosis leads him to think their are contributing factors that aren't being investigated, how is he a bad guy?

    If somebody comes on to a forum saying that current non-surgical treatments aren't very good because they don't correct and often don't stop progression of scoliosis, how is he a bad guy?

    If somebody comes on to a forum saying that studies show that different types of treatments (botox, weight training) may be promising for mild and medium scoliosis patients, how is he a bad guy?

    If somebody comes on to a forum saying that it may reduce your suffering if you take up some questions with your doctor or make him privvy to new possible treatments, how is he a bad guy?

    I'm in favor of a wider range of treatments than what is currently offered, preferrably ones that show better results. How does that make me a bad guy?

    I would have thought everybody on this board would agree.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by carebear23
    Maybe Shaun could post his own thread and people could discuss things with him in there instead of him posting the same things in every thread?
    I agree, I wish I had only started one thread. Perhaps all of these threads can be combined into one?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celia Vogel
    Obviously I'm in the minority but I do find Shaun's way of thinking quite original and refreshing. O.K now I'm in trouble, right ?



    Celia

    Thanks. I don't mind being ridiculed, belittled, or ostrasized for what I'm saying. I don't understand it, but it's not something that concerns me. It will not sway me from doing what I think is right to make people aware of what treatments the medical community appears to be on the cusp of, or of expressing my dissatisfaction with most current non-surgical treatments, nor for advocating more research and more treatments. This should be uplifting and invigorating, not turned into a 'you think you're smarter then' or 'stop your whining' discussion.

    It's like when you tell your children to eat vegetables or to go to school. They may not understand it, they may not like it, but you know that it's the right thing for them, even if they hate you for it.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun26
    I don't mind being ridiculed, belittled, or ostrasized for what I'm saying. I don't understand it, but it's not something that concerns me. It will not sway me ...

    Shaun,

    Don't let it get you down. Public forums can be ruthless...but hey, if you can't insult a complete stranger who can you insult ? Although I don't agree with your views on bracing, I am thankful for the info and links provided. My daughter started out with a very severe curve and now she's almost completely straight ( thanks to casting ). She's only 4 1/2 and has a lot of growing to do for the next 12 years. I'm always looking for success stories or new ideas as to how I can help my little girl. I hope she never needs surgery. Maybe strength training as an adjunct to bracing is the key. Do you think if she wore one of those little wrist band weights on her right wrist it would help strengthen the concave side of her back ? ( her curve is to the left )

    I read that it's impossible to sue an orthopaedic surgeon for malpractice ( God only knows there are quite a few mishaps out there !) because no doctor will testify against them in a court of law. Pretty scary, huh ?



    Celia

  7. #22
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    Celia...

    In my experience it is next to impossible to sue a surgeon. That is not, however, because they're protecting one another (at least in the two cases of which I've been privy). Instead, it's because the surgeon who should have been sued intimidates any surgeono who might be an expert witness. These surgeons are pretty busy, and testifying in the initial case and then fighting a lawsuit for doing so(even one that they would almost certainly win), is just way too costly.

    I would love to see the system changed so that civil suit losers are forced to pay the winner's legal fees along with punitive damages for bringing the suit in the first place.

    (Just another soapbox rave by Linda.)

    Regards,
    Linda

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celia Vogel
    Shaun,

    Don't let it get you down. Public forums can be ruthless...but hey, if you can't insult a complete stranger who can you insult ? Although I don't agree with your views on bracing, I am thankful for the info and links provided. My daughter started out with a very severe curve and now she's almost completely straight ( thanks to casting ). She's only 4 1/2 and has a lot of growing to do for the next 12 years. I'm always looking for success stories or new ideas as to how I can help my little girl. I hope she never needs surgery. Maybe strength training as an adjunct to bracing is the key. Do you think if she wore one of those little wrist band weights on her right wrist it would help strengthen the concave side of her back ? ( her curve is to the left )

    I read that it's impossible to sue an orthopaedic surgeon for malpractice ( God only knows there are quite a few mishaps out there !) because no doctor will testify against them in a court of law. Pretty scary, huh ?



    Celia
    Hi Celia,

    I think bracing is probably effective if scoliosis is found early in life. Since youre daughter is young, her body is still developing and her bones and muscles are still growing and haven't 'settled' completely. If bracing and other treatments are used I can see that as an effective treatment.

    I'm sure there will be exceptions to what I'm saying, but it seems to me that bracing for mature or adolescents who have already gone thru most of their physical development seems like putting a bandaid on an open wound when the curve is severe.

    Early detection is important which is why I think it would be great if schools screened for it year after year until maybe 16 years of age. I sure wish they did when I was in school.

    If what you're doing is working well now, perhaps you can stick with it. But it can't hurt to ask your doctor about additional ideas you may have.

    Best of luck to you and your daughter.
    Last edited by Shaun26; 06-30-2005 at 04:48 AM.

  9. #24
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    I don't agree with the statement "most braced patients are kept from ever having to have surgery". Any figures I have ever seen or read suggest this is true for perhaps 50% of the patients AT BEST. Don't get me wrong, if nearly half these kids avoid surgery, that's great - but I know tons of kids who were braced for years only to end up needing surgery.

    In any event, I think Shaun's heart is in the right place. A lot of us think there should be better alternatives - as, apparently, do some in the medical community. While some doctors appear to be content with the status quo; others are pioneers (i.e., someone like a Randal Betz) and make it their life's work to try to improve the lives of those with scoliosis, coming up with new techniques every day. Let's hope we see more and more of the latter.

  10. #25
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    Hi...

    Not sure where you're getting your info, but I don't think I've ever seen a bracing study that showed anywhere near 50% failed treatment. You can find links to many brace studies here:

    http://www.scoliosislinks.com/BracingResearch.htm

    --Linda

  11. #26
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    Are Some Canadian Doctors from the Dark Ages

    I was actually first told this by a prominent doctor affiliated with the Hospital for Special Surgery in New York. Other doctors I have subsequently spoken with have agreed that bracing works for some of the patients - but none would ever say that it was most or even a majority.

  12. #27
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    Maria...

    I think you must have misunderstood. Check out the abstracts from the link that I posted.

    --Linda

  13. #28
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    Are Some Canadian Doctors from the Dark Ages

    I can assure you that I did NOT misunderstand. I'm not trying to debate this with you - I'm simply repeating what I was told - that for most kids who are braced there's a chance they'll need surgery at some point. When I pressed for odds, I was told "about 50/50".

  14. #29
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    Hi Maria...

    Would you be willing to tell me who the doctor is?

    --Linda

  15. #30
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    Are Some Canadian Doctors from the Dark Ages

    After checking some of the links you posted, I see that the results are based on follow up periods of, for example, 1 year - 23 months. In contrast, I was referring to a patient EVER needing surgery. Perhaps that explains the difference in the figures.

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