Scoliosis Gym

[burdle]

Strong core is the ONLY possible advice for people with scoliosis. That is what works for people with scoliosis if PT can help.

By targeted I think you mean which of the known exercises work for pain. Why can't you just try some and see? There is not an infinite number of things for you to try. You don't need to wait on someone finding a targeted group of exercises that may still not work for you.

I really think the charlatans and their magic PT for curve reduction have completely derailed the issue of PT for pain.

Whys is a strong core the only exercise for core reduction? And even if it is it is the method to get it that I question.

I am talking about for everybody and that is why we have experts - precisely so that people already in pain can be guided before they cause themselves more pain. we can't be guided if PTs don't have the knowledge.

SOSRT some years ago stated that they was a need for exploring specific exercises NOT for reduction- we must stop mixing the terms- but for pain relief? And with this explosion of opioid misuse don't you think more effort should be put into this area. I can go down the gym and encounter a whole bunch of enthusiastic personal trainers who will claim that they can help me and know NOTHINg about scoliosis. Don't you think we patients who cant have surgery should be equipped with knowledge passed on via our PTs so we can counter some of the more dangerous stuff- stuff that makes us crawl out in pain.

That link from MU is like a lot of others they say there are various treatments for adult scoliosis and then go on to just mention the same ones that you would for back pain in general.

Not enough effort has been put into what feeds into a curve and what doesn't etc.

[burdle]

Burdle, addressing "wasted muscles around the curve" *IS* building core. They are one and the same. It is known which muscles are around the curve and a PT can give you 10 exercises to address each one. There is no ground for "specialized/targeted" PT to stand on. It is all occupied already by general PT.


the core is the muscle in the lower back that supports the spine.

for a thoracic curve there are wasted muscles in the concave part of curve and overstretched in the convex part. It is the treatment of this sort of muscle I refer to. Ab crunching is not good for a thoracic curve. And here we have an example of what I mean. Misinformation about what scoliosis is and where it is. far too often a PT will make an assumption about a curve.

Otherwise we just expect all these poor people just to suffer and get on with it and pay a fortune for poor advice

[Pooka1]

Whys is a strong core the only exercise for core reduction? And even if it is it is the method to get it that I question.

Because the spine is in the torso. I am not sure what you are asking.

SOSRT some years ago stated that they was a need for exploring specific exercises NOT for reduction- we must stop mixing the terms- but for pain relief?

I would like to see their comments on that Maryland Med center site. Can't reinvent the wheel.

That link from MU is like a lot of others they say there are various treatments for adult scoliosis and then go on to just mention the same ones that you would for back pain in general.

You state that like there are other PT approaches that exist apart from the ones known to address back pain. People with scoliosis are not able to do things that people who don't have scoliosis can do in terms of exercises. So it is going to be a subset of the known exercises, probably the ones that don't hurt to do. A SHORTER list to try.

Not enough effort has been put into what feeds into a curve and what doesn't etc.

PT is not known to feed into or help with curve magnitude as far as I know.

[Pooka1]

the core is the muscle in the lower back that supports the spine.

??? The core is PREDOMINANTLY the abdominal muscles along with back muscles and pelvic muscles. When my trainer and I do core work, 95% of the time it is targeted ab work (and never crunches) that might also work some back and pelvic muscles. Planks build more abs than crunches.

for a thoracic curve there are wasted muscles in the concave part of curve and overstretched in the convex part. It is the treatment of this sort of muscle I refer to. Ab crunching is not good for a thoracic curve. And here we have an example of what I mean. Misinformation about what scoliosis is and where it is. far too often a PT will make an assumption about a curve.

That is not just misinformation for people with scoliosis and I even wonder if PTs recommend ab crunches for anyone. Planks are known to be better for building core as far as I know.

Otherwise we just expect all these poor people just to suffer and get on with it and pay a fortune for poor advice

If PT works, the specific exercises are already known and out there for you to try. Nobody is going to invent a new exercise.

You say there are wasted muscles and stretched muscles. The rehab doctors have been dealing with these things forever. There will be nothing new coming out of this field in my opinion.

[burdle]

??? You say there are wasted muscles and stretched muscles. The rehab doctors have been dealing with these things forever. There will be nothing new coming out of this field in my opinion.

The rehab people are for rehab after surgery. quite different- and this is only for a short duration of time. We are talking about PT for people who cant or wont have surgery - ie. long term pain maintenance - FOR EVER because the pain is only ever managed and not cured. There have been no studies done- simply none? there will be nothing new because no-one is doing anything. Why would they when they can still pick up the cheque now. Whatever is said about Schroth at least they are trying...

As I said 'Evidence of no value' is not the same as 'No evidence of value'

[burdle]

Because the spine is in the torso. I am not sure what you are asking.

meant to say for pain reduction

I would like to see their comments on that Maryland Med center site. Can't reinvent the wheel.



You state that like there are other PT approaches that exist apart from the ones known to address back pain. People with scoliosis are not able to do things that people who don't have scoliosis can do in terms of exercises. So it is going to be a subset of the known exercises, probably the ones that don't hurt to do. A SHORTER list to try.



PT is not known to feed into or help with curve magnitude as far as I know.

the feeding into the curve is a BAD thing - some exercises that do this can exacerbate a curve. We are never talking about curve reduction!

[Pooka1]

The rehab people are for rehab after surgery.

No absolutely not! Plenty of people get injured and have to go to rehab who have not had surgery. What happens to a person who hurts themselves very badly but does not need surgery? Are you saying they do not go to rehab per se?

Quite different- and this is only for a short duration of time. We are talking about PT for people who cant or wont have surgery - ie. long term pain maintenance - FOR EVER because the pain is only ever managed and not cured. There have been no studies done- simply none? there will be nothing new because no-one is doing anything. Why would they when they can still pick up the cheque now. Whatever is said about Schroth at least they are trying...

As I said 'Evidence of no value' is not the same as 'No evidence of value'

If I don't exercise my shoulders will start to hurt. So I am in the same boat despite not having scoliosis.

Furthermore I don't understand this distinction. There are not different exercises that you do for core depending on if you only need core for a few months versus the rest of your life.

There are literally hundreds and hundreds of variations on exercises that are already known. There is a finite number of muscles in the torso. There will be nothing new because the exercises and muscles are already known. This is why surgeons recommend PT.

Have you tried something like the U of Maryland program? Maybe that would help your pain.

[Pooka1]

the feeding into the curve is a BAD thing - some exercises that do this can exacerbate a curve. We are never talking about curve reduction!

Then don't do those exercises. My trainer does not do exercises with me that cause pain. We don't need research on this.

[burdle]

Then don't do those exercises. My trainer does not do exercises with me that cause pain. We don't need research on this.

my point is that i have found this out by trial and error and doing endless research and also having first had to suffer the physical pain from inappropriate exercises and then to havd to educate my own pt . my point is that not everyone can do ths. why should patients have to suffer because pts are not up to speed with those sort of things. it does not occur to some people that what tbey are being told.might be wrong.- that is why we have experts. if you had lost a leg you would expect a pt to take that on board and not give exercises for a two.legged person. so why should scoliotics not expect an understanding of their condition.

this is not about me. it is about the thousands who are in this position. yes we need research on this. Only a very few actually get surgery and yet you would not deny further research on surgical technique. you wouldnt ask someone to do their own surgery- you would go to an expert. so why is it different for non surgical solutions.

[Pooka1]

my point is that i have found this out by trial and error and doing endless research and also having first had to suffer the physical pain from inappropriate exercises and then to havd to educate my own pt . my point is that not everyone can do ths. why should patients have to suffer because pts are not up to speed with those sort of things. it does not occur to some people that what tbey are being told.might be wrong.- that is why we have experts. if you had lost a leg you would expect a pt to take that on board and not give exercises for a two.legged person. so why should scoliotics not expect an understanding of their condition.

I suspect you got an incompetent person and now are ascribing that incompetence to the whole of PT. If my personal trainer who is NOT a doctor of physical therapy appears to know FAR more than the person you dealt with then imagine how much a competent doctor of physical therapy knows?

Do you think it is possible that you would have much more relief for your pain if you went to someone who is competent? I am just saying even I appear to know more about exercising than the person you dealt with and I am a lay person.

[Pooka1]

The other thing his and correct me if I'm wrong but SOSORTS is concerned with finding PT to address progression only and not pain.

[burdle]

The other thing his and correct me if I'm wrong but SOSORTS is concerned with finding PT to address progression only and not pain.

I think so too but any research into conservative treatment like PT for progression will undoubtedly have a knock on in the effect on pain.