Why surgeons are not recommending Vbs/Vbt

[flerc]

I’m sure that if a perfect tethering candidate walked in that a referral would happen.....It depends on the individual surgeon.

One of the famous surgeons many years ago wrote articles on minimally invasive surgery while in its infancy, he was quite hesitant.

Now, things are different. MIS is now quite popular......

Nothing happens fast.

Fusion surgeons should stops to call this kind of surgery MINIMALLY invasive surgery.. is difficult to imagine something more invasive than fusion!. It remebers me a lawyer defending a criminal saying that he performed a minimally harmfull way for kill..

[flerc]

Playing hookie today....Bubonic plague has set in....a flea made the critical decision to jump, and ruin my day. Ha ha

The spine surgeons will go into their spine meetings which are held globally and discuss stapling and tethering.....I couldn’t imagine ANY scoliosis surgeon not being interested in something like this.

What’s very important is that there is success. The outcomes have to be stimulating enough that other surgeons get motivated to train in the new techniques.

As far as tethering is concerned, they can do hybrid and fuse certain levels for various reasons and tether the levels that offer hope. There will be compromised levels that will need discectomies, or other interventions. (mostly adults)

What would be the cats meow would be to have a device that works like Magec that can control the cord tensioning from outside the body without doing another surgery. Calculating the tension has got to be tricky due to the variances in stiffness in each patient.

We can only hope that the majority of the outcomes is positive enough to tip the scales of indecision.

Ed

Ed, surely this thread will be closed or deleted soon. Every kind of speculations about possible Vbt limitations don't explain why only fusion surgeons are not letting know about Vbt, of course is something that people thinking in surgery should to know.

[flerc]

Exactly NOBODY thinks fusion is not viable any more other than a few lay people who, NOT coincidentally, are always pushing conspiracy theories among surgeons.

The hope is that VBT and perhaps stapling will replace fusion. VBT is certainly better in terms of ROM because it preserves the front-back motion but the side to side motion is constrained almost like a fusion.

May you post where did you read this???

[burdle]

I have just said 'it seems to be a cosnspirancy' against Vbt. Do you understand the difference?.

Am I going mad- Flerc says there seems to be a conspiracy against VBT and I asked why does Flerc think this?

No I don't understand the difference?

[flerc]

You seems to have an understanding problem, you asked me something different and you don't understand the difference. Is not the first time

Posted by burdle View Post

Why do you think that your opinion that no-one should have Fusion surgery is more valid than a trained surgeon?

B][/B]

Posted by Flerc

Quote where I said it or be honest and delete it!

B][/B]

Don't forget to do it!. Or do you want people thinking that you are dishonest?

[Pooka1]

Am I going mad- Flerc says there seems to be a conspiracy against VBT and I asked why does Flerc think this?

No I don't understand the difference?

You are not going mad. He thinks it because he is an emotional conspiracy theorist against science and medicine.

[flerc]

You seems to be altered.. take it easy and take in mind that people knows that defaming, attacking and lying as you always do in non surgical section is not the way to help people in a forum. I was not sure but I thought that you wanted to help people decided to have surgery, but is far to be what you are showing. Your purpose is to lead me to responds to your attacks so the moderator can came to close/delete the thread as always finish our discussions. She allows to you to do attacks insulte or what you want but not to me.
So try to be honest at least in this sections and stop to confussing people. Delete what you said about Vbt (experimental treatment, not allows to bend more than fusion..) or prove it!

[burdle]

You seems to be altered.. take it easy and take in mind that people knows that defaming, attacking and lying as you always do in non surgical section is not the way to help people in a forum. I was not sure but I thought that you wanted to help people decided to have surgery, but is far to be what you are showing. Your purpose is to lead me to responds to your attacks so the moderator can came to close/delete the thread as always finish our discussions. She allows to you to do attacks insulte or what you want but not to me.
So try to be honest at least in this sections and stop to confussing people. Delete what you said about Vbt (experimental treatment, not allows to bend more than fusion..) or prove it!

Some of what you conclude is really down to subtlety of expression. your English is good but it does let you down. Experimental treatment does not mean treatment still at laboratory stage. Literally it does but in common usage it means not used used across the whole spectrum... YET. VBT is only done by a few doctors, - they are waiting for results - hence experimental . In UK I believe surgeons are not using it while they wait for evidence of efficacy. I understand that you were looking at Spanish web sites- maybe their medics are waiting too.

[burdle]

Quote where I said there it or be honest and delete it!

It is a reasonable conclusion from your previous posts. You are stating that VBT is not being mentioned as a treatment! It is reasonable to conclude that as surgeons are still recommending fusion that you are of the opinion that they should not be!

[flerc]

In any way, the only problem seems to be that I speak only in a precise and logical way, as if I would be demonstraying a Maths theorem and people without a logic mind, often has difficult to interpret me, but is impossible for me to talk in other way.
Nobody in the world with a logic mind may (honestly) say as you did, that I said something implying 'no-one should have Fusion surgery'. Clearly you are not able (probably because nobody can) to quote where I said it or something equivalent. Certainly what you said 'You are stating that VBT is not being mentioned as a treatment! It is reasonable to conclude that as surgeons are still recommending fusion that you are of the opinion that they should not be!' is absurd and tipicall of someone without a logical reasoning.

[flerc]

But we are not here to talk about you or me. I'm not obey to know what surgeons understand for 'experimental' but it would not be right if they are doing the same that with other concepts ('minimally invasive', 'normal life'..) giving them a name that has nothing to do.
Clearly nobody may says that something that is used since many years and by many surgeons around the world is something experimental.
I'm not totally sure about what you means with this 'in common usage it means not used used across the whole spectrum', but if it is what I suppose, then you should to say that rigid brace are experimental yet.

[burdle]

In any way, the only problem seems to be that I speak only in a precise and logical way, as if I would be demonstraying a Maths theorem and people without a logic mind, often has difficult to interpret me, but is impossible for me to talk in other way.
Nobody in the world with a logic mind may (honestly) say as you did, that I said something implying 'no-one should have Fusion surgery'. Clearly you are not able (probably because nobody can) to quote where I said it or something equivalent. Certainly what you said 'You are stating that VBT is not being mentioned as a treatment! It is reasonable to conclude that as surgeons are still recommending fusion that you are of the opinion that they should not be!' is absurd and tipicall of someone without a logical reasoning.

I am part of MENSA - just think on that... I don't wish to be rude but your English is really not up to any standard whereby you could use it in any debate about science!

[Pooka1]

I am part of MENSA - just think on that... I don't wish to be rude but your English is really not up to any standard whereby you could use it in any debate about science!

Excellent! Way beyond cool, Burdle.

His English is passable. His command of the scientific facts is not. That claim about 50* being an automatic surgery trigger in an adult is shocking given he has been reading posts here for years. He either forgot a million posts or didn't understand them. The later possibility is why I said he sounded like a chiro... near total ignorance.

And speaking of chiro, ScoliSmart is blithely saying they don't do VBT but think it is the way to go for surgical cases. But the way they say they don't do VBT completely obscures the fact that not only do they not do VBT but they don't do any surgery because they are chiros and chiro school is more like a trade school and the near complete opposite of medical school in every way (admission criteria, facts themselves, critical thinking, etc.).

When I type "VBT adult", the first sit ethat pops up is ScoliSmart. https://www.treatingscoliosis.com/ve...g-or-stapling/

While ScoliSMART clinics do not perform or offer these procedures, w

I wonder if they admit anywhere they are not medical doctors. There are chiro sites that just refer to the chiro as "Dr." and NEVER admit he is a chiro and not an MD. We need better regulations on this.

[burdle]

Excellent! Way beyond cool, Burdle.


When I type "VBT adult", the first sit ethat pops up is ScoliSmart. https://www.treatingscoliosis.com/ve...g-or-stapling/



I wonder if they admit anywhere they are not medical doctors. There are chiro sites that just refer to the chiro as "Dr." and NEVER admit he is a chiro and not an MD. We need better regulations on this.

Exactly- this is why I have been in contact with SRS and Dr Betz. personally. Scolismart claim that they work with surgeons including Dr Betz. them ? I have asked Betz to clarify and to a certain extent he has replied that he does not but he does see a need to communicate with them? SRS maintain that they do not recommend or endorse in any way Scolismart but they are not going far enough to publicly say so.

[Pooka1]

Exactly- this is why I have been in contact with SRS and Dr Betz. personally. Scolismart claim that they work with surgeons including Dr Betz. them ? I have asked Betz to clarify and to a certain extent he has replied that he does not but he does see a need to communicate with them? SRS maintain that they do not recommend or endorse in any way Scolismart but they are not going far enough to publicly say so.

There is some issue between chiros and medical doctors that arose years ago with the latter trying to effectively shut down the former. I think there was some settlement and now medical doctors seem loath to go after chiros. This is just my impression.