I haven't posted in a few years. And I'm still a mess.

[so_shy]

I think your back looks good. On picture 2 I don't see a rib hump caused by scoliosis, and it would really show off on that picture if it was significant. Your kyphosis looks mild to me. On picture 3 it looks like you are just standing in a weird way and leaning backwards, not just raising your hand. This is just my lay opinion, I could be all wrong about this. Of course t-shirt will be tight around your back if you have a belly and that you need bigger size because of that.

I thank you but I just don't see that "my back looks good" and throughout my life others have confirmed how bad I look as I have been verbally made fun or imitated by SO many (classmates, teachers, co-workers, acquaintances, strangers).

Compare how my back goes from ROUNDED in pictures 2 and 4 where my arm is down at my side, to pictures 3 and 5 where with my arm up, the scapula is protruding greatly.

It was difficult enough taking just those few pictures but if I had put on that shirt in my normal size (which should be a small or medium), or a bunch of DIFFERENT kinds of shirts in my normal size, you would see that I look even worse.

And you are seeing the hump from just one angle. Again, it made me sick just taking those five pictures but you would see from a host of other angles how bad my right side is.

(My belly protrudes, I was told, because of my lordosis. I don't mind the belly. It's the pointy jutting out scapula hump on my right side that I makes me sick.)

[boogaloo]

I can relate to you about your "mental pain" associated with your condition. I was there in one part of my life few years ago. And you know what, no one can help you if you won't help yourself. You spent too much time hiding in your house/bedroom. You are healthy, you have no pain and you can do all the things you imagine, but you don't. Imagine how many people would give everything in the world just to be pain free and to be able to walk. You have all that and you are spending your life in your room.
Why? Because of some people who might comment about your back? But you know what, no one cares about your back and how you look. At least people who care about you, your friends and family. Other people have their own life and don't care about some random person on the street. Life will pass and you will look back on the times when you could do everything and you will be sorry for not living your life like you should lived. My warm suggestion is to try to get professional help if you can't do it on your own.
Start working on yourself, set goals. Carreer, hobby, sports. Anything that will distract you from your current mindset. Things will start to fall into place. It's not easy but it could be done. Step by step, day by day. I wish you all the best!

[Pooka1]

Do you have measurements on your lordosis and kyphosis? Is it possible they are in the normal range? If so will that ease your mind at all?

ETA, I work with a guy who does not have scoliosis but he has the winging scapula and he has non-iatrogenic flatback (never had surgery). He has nerve damage in his shoulder and neck from this stuff. He is in pain and has numbness and is getting therapy.

His scapula looks like yours when you extend you arm. Nobody noticed his winging scapula until he mentioned it. I have been working in the field with this guy for years in the back of a water quality truck with him reaching for things only a few feet next to me and I never noticed it until he told me.

I mention this to echo boogaloo in saying people are not paying attention to your posture. Most people don't even pay attention to their own posture. My daughters curves got pretty large before anyone noticed them.

[so_shy]

I can relate to you about your "mental pain" associated with your condition. I was there in one part of my life few years ago. And you know what, no one can help you if you won't help yourself. You spent too much time hiding in your house/bedroom. You are healthy, you have no pain and you can do all the things you imagine, but you don't. Imagine how many people would give everything in the world just to be pain free and to be able to walk. You have all that and you are spending your life in your room.
Why? Because of some people who might comment about your back? But you know what, no one cares about your back and how you look. At least people who care about you, your friends and family. Other people have their own life and don't care about some random person on the street. Life will pass and you will look back on the times when you could do everything and you will be sorry for not living your life like you should lived. My warm suggestion is to try to get professional help if you can't do it on your own.
Start working on yourself, set goals. Carreer, hobby, sports. Anything that will distract you from your current mindset. Things will start to fall into place. It's not easy but it could be done. Step by step, day by day. I wish you all the best!

Thank you boogaloo but what you suggested I actually TRIED. I saw psychiatrists and pyschologists for years, and was on all kinds of medication for the anxiety and other emotional and mental problems my condition causes. I had goals and I pursued them vigorously. I participated in life and gave it my all. But again and again, the self-consciousness, the self-repulsion, and having that self-consciousness and self-repulsion confirmed by the way others treated me, just sank me. Every effort ended in failure to where I finally was so emotionally sick and I could no longer physically exist in the real world the way a normal person does. It would be an understatement to say I made a hell of an effort.

Yes, I know others have it worse in life. That has always created tremendous guilt. But in the past few years I have read online accocunts of others with scoliosis (and kyphosis) who were psychologically damaged and who still sought out help, and many got help and relief in the form of surgery and who then went on to talk about how free they felt and how they got their lives back. (I've read stories online. I've watched videos on YouTube.) Surgery is not an option for me, being only "moderate" so finding clothes, particularly shirts I can wear is my only solution it seems. And that's why I'm reluctantly posting on a message board, my only option left to seek help as all other options in the past have failed.

[boogaloo]

Try to make an appointment and see where your curves are at. Maybe you could find someone who would operate if you are sub surgical. Yes there are good testimonials, but there are also bad. Getting surgery just for cosmetic reasons is not really a good idea, if there is no progression and/or pain. What if you end up with pain after surgery or need revision/s? Surgery should always be a last resort for adults.
You really think that proper shirt will solve your problem? I doubt it.

[so_shy]

Do you have measurements on your lordosis and kyphosis? Is it possible they are in the normal range? If so will that ease your mind at all?

ETA, I work with a guy who does not have scoliosis but he has the winging scapula and he has non-iatrogenic flatback (never had surgery). He has nerve damage in his shoulder and neck from this stuff. He is in pain and has numbness and is getting therapy.

His scapula looks like yours when you extend you arm. Nobody noticed his winging scapula until he mentioned it. I have been working in the field with this guy for years in the back of a water quality truck with him reaching for things only a few feet next to me and I never noticed it until he told me.

I mention this to echo boogaloo in saying people are not paying attention to your posture. Most people don't even pay attention to their own posture. My daughters curves got pretty large before anyone noticed them.

I actually went to a PHYSICAL therapist back in the 1990s who said just that, I had a winged scapula. And he gave me exercises to do, so I went out and bought a bench, weights, and other devices and did all the exercises he gave me to build up various back and chest muscles, the serratus anterior being the most important, he said. I built up those muscles over a year and a half but my scapula still protruded horribly when I used my right arm. I think he mistook a rib hump for a winged scapula (as in recent years I was able to confirm online that often a winged scapula is used mistakenly to describe a scapula that protrudes not because of weak serratus anterior muscles but because of the curvature and rotation of the spine on one side. And I recall another member five years ago saying something to that effect). To show how desperate I've been, I still have all that equipment and four years ago started doing the exercises again, telling myself (or is that deluding myself) into thinking that maybe I just didn't do those exercises correctly or I didn't try hard enough the first time, back in the 1990s. So I have a lot of that muscle back, but again it's obvious it's the scoliosis that's the cause of the protruding scapula, the hump. So no one can say I haven't tried.

[so_shy]

Try to make an appointment and see where your curves are at. Maybe you could find someone who would operate if you are sub surgical. Yes there are good testimonials, but there are also bad. Getting surgery just for cosmetic reasons is not really a good idea, if there is no progression and/or pain. What if you end up with pain after surgery or need revision/s? Surgery should always be a last resort for adults.
You really think that proper shirt will solve your problem? I doubt it.

Yes I do believe finding the right shirts, shirts with wider necks and that are loose fitting, will help. I know clothes can make a difference because when I was younger we lived in a section of the country that was very cold, where in the winter you had to wear a huge heavy coat every day. And I noticed during that time of the year, wearing such a big heavy coat (which greatly concealed my kyphosis and scoliosis), my level of anxiety dropped significantly. But we moved to a section of the country where winters are much more mild, where most people wear moderate or light jackets in the winter, not the kind that cover up my conditions the way the heavy coats did back when we lived in the super cold part of the country.

[so_shy]

I added this to my initial post just to show the variety of neckline widths that women's shirts come in: http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...ine_widths.jpg

As I said, five years ago members told me that wider neck, loose fitting shirts are made for men, though they are a rarity. The problem is finding stores that sell them. (I can't buy them online.) If I could just find which if any stores sell them.

[Pooka1]

So no one can say I haven't tried.

I certainly hope nobody is saying that, thinking that, or judging you at all.

You say this has happened in real life and I am very sorry for that. It certainly couldn't happen in my work place and I have never seen anyone being mistreated for a physical condition anywhere I have ever worked.

[so_shy]

I certainly hope nobody is saying that, thinking that, or judging you at all.

You say this has happened in real life and I am very sorry for that. It certainly couldn't happen in my work place and I have never seen anyone being mistreated for a physical condition anywhere I have ever worked.

I have a stored library in my brain of all the times over the past three decades I was made fun or imitated. It would take pages and pages if I were to write out all those incidents. But I'll just a give a couple to show the kind of cruel things people have said or done. In school we went to a play, and another student in front of the others pointed to me and said, referring to a character in the play we had seen, "You could play the hunchback." I had one teacher yell at me for walking in a slumped manner. Another teacher imitated the way one shoulder was higher than another while I was sitting in a chair and leaning in a way that obviously highlighted my condition. I had a co-worker come up to me and tell me "I can tell what kind of person you are, it's the way you walk, your body langauge." He pushed his shoulders in and dropped his head into his chest and then proceeded to tell me what kind of a person I was. I had a doctor, yes a doctor, the first time he saw me in his office, said, "Oh, hunchback." (I shared that story of the doctor five years ago.) I could go on but it would take pages. And every time someone made fun of me, it hit me in the gut. It ripped me apart. Ripped ripped ripped ripped me apart, horrible pain. Sucked the life right out of me. I cried in private. And it all confirmed my own self-repulsion. (Especially when someone would imitate me. It was like I was looking in the mirror. Seeing their imitation of me, the way they altered or contorted their body, that it was exactly what I would see in the mirror when I looked at myself, told me that this was no case of body dysmorphia because their imitations were spot on.)

[boogaloo]

I am sorry to hear that you have been mistreated by other people. Bullying is something "normal" that almost all kids go through the for whatever reason it may be. Kids just do that.
When grown people do that, that just speaks for them selfs. I don't know what do you want to hear from us here? You are a grown men, if you can't get over these things then you should seek help. You don't have pain, you are not progressing, you are not in surgical range, you don't have limitations other than that in your mind. Majority of people here are in pain, more deformed than you with curves much bigger than yours.

[Pooka1]

I am sorry to hear that you have been mistreated by other people. Bullying is something "normal" that almost all kids go through the for whatever reason it may be. Kids just do that.
When grown people do that, that just speaks for them selfs. I don't know what do you want to hear from us here? You are a grown men, if you can't get over these things then you should seek help. You don't have pain, you are not progressing, you are not in surgical range, you don't have limitations other than that in your mind. Majority of people here are in pain, more deformed than you with curves much bigger than yours.

I have exchanged a few PMs with him. He was afraid of coming off as whining when other people's backs are much worse.

Though his back is in better shape than that of many here, his mind, emotions, and feelings seem much, much worse. If he is traumatized by his physical appearance then that is connected to his scoliosis. In that sense it is like nerve pain that does or does not accompany scoliosis in various people irrespective of their Cobb angle. He has tremendous psychological pain associated with his scoliosis irrespective of his Cobb angle. People are not necessarily in control of their brain chemistry.

He says he just wants help finding the wide-necked men's shirts. He says that is the key going forward for him. That's ALL he wants at this point from the group. Someone several years ago said that might help with his appearance so he has been looking for them. Frankly, I don't understand that suggestion and think it might make matters more noticeable but whatever.

There is nothing anyone here can say to change his feelings about his condition. If professionals can't help him then I doubt we can other than with shirt store suggestions.

[so_shy]

I have exchanged a few PMs with him. He was afraid of coming off as whining when other people's backs are much worse.

Though his back is in better shape than that of many here, his mind, emotions, and feelings seem much, much worse. If he is traumatized by his physical appearance then that is connected to his scoliosis. In that sense it is like nerve pain that does or does not accompany scoliosis in various people irrespective of their Cobb angle. He has tremendous psychological pain associated with his scoliosis irrespective of his Cobb angle. People are not necessarily in control of their brain chemistry.

He says he just wants help finding the wide-necked men's shirts. He says that is the key going forward for him. That's ALL he wants at this point from the group. Someone several years ago said that might help with his appearance so he has been looking for them. Frankly, I don't understand that suggestion and think it might make matters more noticeable but whatever.

There is nothing anyone here can say to change his feelings about his condition. If professionals can't help him then I doubt we can other than with shirt store suggestions.

First, I see that already (and not you Pooka) a couple here are doing just as I feared. They see me as a nuisance. I see some annoyance with me.

Second, the suggestion that I get wider neck shirts was suggested by members here five years ago. The point was that shirts that afford some space around the neck, from front and most important from behind, would help mitigate the degree to which I look roundback. Shirts that ride high up the neck, which are 99% of most men's shirts, highlight the degree to which I look rounded. (And a looser fitting shirt would help mitigate the degree to which my protruding scapula shows). One member even provided a link to Nordstrom. I went to a Nordstrom four years ago. They didn't carry the shirt in the STORE itself. So I've come back here because this forum is where the suggestion was made regarding shirts. I was hoping members might know what stores sell them since they are familiar with this type of shirt.

If no one knows, I won't prolong this discussion anymore. I'll delete this thread and disappear.

(For those reading this reply who read my initial post a month ago, where I reintroduced myself, I completely rewrote that initial post. So if you think I'm still whining, please reread the first post that begins this thread. I posted a link to a set of pictures of my back, each with a description, and in the text I presented a specific question.)

[jackieg412]

So Shy, I will only comment on the winging of the scapula. It can be a big problem. But there is help for that. If you read some of the problems that I faced it can be diagnosed and then helped. Part of my problem was function of the arm. But you haven't mentioned that . But check it out

[boogaloo]

So_shy I am really really sorry if I offended you in some way, it wasn't my intention. My intention was to help and try to motivate you. Now I understand that my words won't change your situation so do whatever you think might help you.