SpineCor and Insurance

[flerc]

Pwalia , I opened this thread with the same name of your good thread http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...-and-Insurance which unfortunately was aborted by Pooka1 and closed as it always happens here. This should to encourage you to try with the Spinecor for adults, not only because they were not able to show a solid argument against it.. it seems they don't want people talking about it.

Anyway I'm shocked with this 'It is okay to try treatments that are unproven.' For Pooka1, unproven treatments are everything except fusion, but she is not saying now that people trying with non surgical methods are ignorant, stupids or desperates. Amazing!

[flerc]

This is what the inventor of Vbt said https://posna.org/Blogs/The-Resident...th-Randal-Betz
'If you talk to orthodontists who are moving teeth, even in adults, they are seeing significant bone remodeling. It has encouraged us to consider that there may be some late remodeling opportunities, not just for growth modulation, but for bone remodeling.'

Vbt is used now for adults. If it can lead to bone remodeling, why (with significant reduction in brace) Spinecor cannot get it too?

[burdle]

This is what the inventor of Vbt said https://posna.org/Blogs/The-Resident...th-Randal-Betz
'If you talk to orthodontists who are moving teeth, even in adults, they are seeing significant bone remodeling. It has encouraged us to consider that there may be some late remodeling opportunities, not just for growth modulation, but for bone remodeling.'

Vbt is used now for adults. If it can lead to bone remodeling, why (with significant reduction in brace) Spinecor cannot get it too?

Taken from your own link above - question and answer to DR Betz - ' late adolescence is not 'adult'

Q: Can the procedure be done in skeletally mature people?


A: If you talk to orthodontists who are moving teeth, even in adults, they are seeing significant bone remodeling. It has encouraged us to consider that there may be some late remodeling opportunities, not just for growth modulation, but for bone remodeling. So even though in the past we were doing patients who were Risser 0, Sanders 4 or less, we now are considering patients who are a little bit older, Sanders 7 and up to Risser 4, because we just don’t know how much remodeling there is in late adolescence.

[Pooka1]

Now that we see the whole quote, we see that flerc was "quote-mining." That is showing only part of a quote to make a point OPPOSITE to what the author was making.

Flerc is being intellectually dishonest. Only people who cannot win an argument honestly engage in quote mining. The textbook case are the people who deny an old earth and evolution. They are stars at quote-mining because if they didn't do that they couldn't say anything at all.

[flerc]

Now you want to close also this thread. You don't want people taking into account non surgical methods! There is too much evidence!.

[flerc]

VBT/VBS is not suitable for adults and only suitable for some children's curves.

Taken from your own link above - question and answer to DR Betz - ' late adolescence is not 'adult'

Q: Can the procedure be done in skeletally mature people?


A: If you talk to orthodontists who are moving teeth, even in adults, they are seeing significant bone remodeling. It has encouraged us to consider that there may be some late remodeling opportunities, not just for growth modulation, but for bone remodeling. So even though in the past we were doing patients who were Risser 0, Sanders 4 or less, we now are considering patients who are a little bit older, Sanders 7 and up to Risser 4, because we just don’t know how much remodeling there is in late adolescence.

Coincidentally, as Pooka1 does, you also affirm in a categorical way what you cannot prove.
Yes, Vbt is used in adults too.

[burdle]

Coincidentally, as Pooka1 does, you also affirm in a categorical way what you cannot prove.
Yes, Vbt is used in adults too.

You prove it - - you show me adults who have had successful VBT? I don't have to prove VBT isn't done on adults - you have to prove it is!!

Maybe your poor English means you don't understand the term 'adult' but for the purposes of this discussion I am using it to describe fully grown mature people.

I would love to hear that VBT is offered to adults as a matter of routine. DR. Betz did not say he does VBT on adults. You are not helping when you post inaccuracies and give false hope.

You are blind to facts, selective in your facts and hide behind your vendetta against people on this forum.

[flerc]

And if you are so sure about what you say, why you ask if the procedure is done in adults? Maybe the problem is that you have not clear what you want to say or how to do it (fortunately you are talking in your native language) .. or what you think.. who knows?
'DR. Betz did not say he does VBT on adults'.. never? At least you are consistent now with what you said before 'VBT/VBS is not suitable for adults and only suitable for some children's curves'. Which is your information source? It's amazing really.. Use the searcher please, .. Don't you understand what I'm saying or do you need I explain you how to use it?.. it's very easy, tell me.
Anyway, good work! We are not talking about Spinecor anymore!

[burdle]

And if you are so sure about what you say, why you ask if the procedure is done in adults? Maybe the problem is that you have not clear what you want to say.. or what you think.. who knows?
'DR. Betz did not say he does VBT on adults.' At least you are consistent now with what you said before 'VBT/VBS is not suitable for adults and only suitable for some children's curves'. Which is your information source? It's amazing really.. Use the searcher please, .. Don't you understand what I'm saying or do you need I explain you how to use it?.. it's very easy, tell me.
Anyway, good work! We are not talking about Spinecor..

Flerc - you are crazy, insulting and downright stupid. - The thread evolved from Spinecor where I countered with Pooka that there was no evidence that it worked to a general discussion on non-surgical methods whereby you went off on your crazy train of accusations about us being pro fusion at seemingly any cost. Part of your rant included VBT . YOU brought VBT into the discussion. YOU were the one who said it worked on adults. I am not asking if it works - I am saying no-one does it on adults, so as yet it does not work. . If you know different and you have evidence then show it. There is no evidence that eating spaghetti Bolognese will cure scoliosis but I don't enter that into a search engine to prove it. I can't prove eating spaghetti Bolognese will not cure scoliosis. Someone would need to prove that it can. This is how logic works.

[flerc]

Besides insulting and defaming, what else do you know to do?
Did you search in this forum?.. really, do you know how to do it?
Do you think I'm the first saying about adults having today Vbt? Or do you think that also them are crazy, stupid, dishonest..

[flerc]

There is no evidence There is no evidence There is no evidence There is no evidence There is no evidence There is no evidence There is no evidence There is no evidence There is no evidence....
.
.
.
There is no evidenceThere is no evidenceThere is no evidenceThere is no evidenceThere is no evidenceThere is no evidenceThere is no evidence
There is no evidence that you are not Pooka1. What I should to conclude? I'm trying to understand this new way to reasoning.

[flerc]

Which is the next step? Deleting this thread.. banning me?.. People without any argument needs the use of power of course!

[3sisters]

[QUOTE=burdle;166762]You prove it - - you show me adults who have had successful VBT? I don't have to prove VBT isn't done on adults - you have to prove it is!!



I have an adult friend who has personally, successfully, received VBT from Drs. Antonacci, Betz, and Cuddihy. She is mature at 'over 40!' but it is not my place to share her medical history, as that is only for her to choose to do so. Also, some younger adults who are definitely skeletally mature as women; ages 20 and late teens.

Without entering into this whole thread, let me assure you it is being done. Call Drs. ABC in NJ if you need proof of possible eligibility; not to harass them, but any adult candidate who is truly interested. Dr. Braun in New Hampshire has also tethered skeletally mature younger adults.

I am familiar with a surgeon in Germany, also, who is getting on board the VBT program and anticipates this to be the 'go to' surgical answer in the near future. There are approximately twenty surgeons worldwide now performing VBT and parameters are steadily expanding. Feel free to pm me if you want to join a VBT specific forum to learn more about success stories in a supportive environment. felvuse@hotmail.com

I don't participate in this forum regularly; those that say 'it is unproven longterm' cannot deny that there are no guarantees in life, to include with fusion, but this is a risk that is looking awfully good to many of us who are maintaining flexibility and successfully getting on with our lives.

[flerc]

Thanks Emily for giving us good and reliable information. You are a good and positive woman, thinking only in the present and future and encouraging people to don't give up!. Unfortunately, this is not the environment for people like you.
Warm regards!

[Pooka1]

Thanks Emily for giving us good and reliable information. You are a good and positive woman, thinking only in the present and future and encouraging people to don't give up!. Unfortunately, this is not the environment for people like you.
Warm regards!

Flerc, maybe you can leave here and go join your buddy Emily wherever she is on the interwebs? Wouldn't that be better for you?