Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 38

Thread: How prominent is your abdomen?

  1. #16
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    reno,nevada
    Posts
    4,312
    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post

    Fortunately my daughter is not in pain So I’m thinking now in strong abdominals. I'm sure they contributes in making the structure more resistant, but I cannot know how much.
    This is good.

    I don’t think that the traction machinery devices we are talking about will help much in a thoracic curve .....after all, you have to grab the rib cage with a vest that contacts all the ribs. The benefits would mostly be seen down low, in the lumbar.

    Thoracic curves are up high in the body,so it makes it hard to blame gravity....the muscles and soft tissues really have a strong influence in why rotation and curves happen......I don’t know if these thoracic area muscles get the exercise and stimulation they need while wearing a vest....???

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 62, the new 63...
    Pre surgery curves T70,L70
    ALIF/PSA T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,976
    Yes, I think you are right.. certainly I thought in something only grabbing the axillae.. but should to be no much comfortable. I commented to my daughter’s physiatrist and she was close to refuse to continue attending her.. she is very strict..She also said me that if I wanted to do this, also the neck should to be grabbed.
    Probably only in that way the dorsal vertebras may remains straight as the others as happens lying down, who knows.
    I think that in this sense, the Spinecor should to be the best, but it not exists in my country. I imagined a way to do something not so good but similar but I’m not a health professional..

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,976

    anatomic doubt

    I didn't realize that abdominal muscles was only above the belly button as may be seen here http://musculacionysalud.blogspot.co...dominales.html
    Certainly when I referred to a flacid or prominent abdomen, mostly I referred to the part below those muscles. I think that an actual muscular brace need solid muscles also or mainly in that zone.
    Someone know the name of those muscles?

  4. #19
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    reno,nevada
    Posts
    4,312
    These are the “abs” or “Six packs”. You can see these run the whole length of the abdomen.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectus_abdominis_muscle

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 62, the new 63...
    Pre surgery curves T70,L70
    ALIF/PSA T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,976
    Thanks Ed, certainly is something confused for me. I supposed that all the abdominal muscles were only those 6 packs, clearly over the belly button in that man. Below it, I dont see any 'pack' or something like a muscle, I see only something flat. But in the figure I see more 'packs' at least 8 and certainly 2 of them below the belly button. I suppose it also are part of the Rectus abdominis muscle and I hope they are not weaker than the 6 packs above.
    Someone without scoliosis probably not need much firmness in this zone, but having an important frontal curve, I believe is a must.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    reno,nevada
    Posts
    4,312
    In browsing through some articles, I came across some things that many of us take for granted. The first is simply standing. This is the first thing they make us do after surgery, and although it seems like it isn’t an exercise task, it really is…..

    Although seemingly static,the body rocks slightly back and forth from the ankle in the sagittal plane. The sway of quiet standing is often likened to the motion of an inverted pendulum.[1]

    Erect posture requires adjustment and correction. There are many mechanisms in the body that are suggested to control this, e.g. a spring action in muscles, higher control from the nervous system or core muscles. Just standing exercises “core muscles”.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The next is walking. The benefits once again, we take for granted. Scroll down for the health benefits…..Is this physical therapy? It sure is. It’s the “gold standard” and hard to beat.
    Get outside and walk!
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walking

    As an athlete all my life, I was always doing physical things that were fun. The only time I “targeted” any muscle group per say was when I would run up and down stairs for skiing training and I didn’t do this much since I would rather be skiing. (smiley face) You can see why it didn’t make all that much sense to me. Why would I use a treadmill when I could simply take a walk and see the sights? Why would I ride an indoor bike when I could go for a ride? I would rather be outdoors in the clean air doing things I enjoyed rather than making it a chore…….
    ================================================== ==
    For those that want to target the abdomen, there are a list of exercises listed here. The bicycle crunch gets first place, but can be hard for scolis to do……The exercise ball comes in 3rd place and having one of these balls for exercising really is a must for scolis…..I use mine while watching TV. Just sitting and rolling around on it exercises the abs.
    Please note…..
    The benefit of focused training on the "deep core" muscles such as the transversus abdominis has been disputed, with some experts advocating a more comprehensive training regimen.[10]

    And for those concerned with abdominal fat…..
    The 2011 study found that abdominal exercise does not reduce abdominal fat; to achieve that, a deficit in energy expenditure and caloric intake must be created—abdominal exercises alone are not enough to reduce abdominal fat and the girth of the abdomen[1]. Early results from a 2006 study found that walking exercise (not abdominal exercise specifically) reduced the size of subcutaneous abdominal fat cells; cell size predicts type 2 diabetes according to a lead author.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdominal_exercise

    Fun stuff
    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 62, the new 63...
    Pre surgery curves T70,L70
    ALIF/PSA T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,976
    Wise thoughts.. it not surprise me.

    Quote Originally Posted by titaniumed View Post
    In browsing through some articles, I came across some things that many of us take for granted. The first is simply standing. This is the first thing they make us do after surgery, and although it seems like it isn’t an exercise task, it really is…..
    Certainly surgeons has great before/after non surgical ideas not only useful for surgery. Edf was for me the best example, it was invented in order to achieve flexibility before surgery, but surely was the most effective brace solution of those times.. or probably Milwaukee, but it also was created for surgery treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by titaniumed View Post
    Although seemingly static,the body rocks slightly back and forth from the ankle in the sagittal plane. The sway of quiet standing is often likened to the motion of an inverted pendulum.[1]
    Erect posture requires adjustment and correction. There are many mechanisms in the body that are suggested to control this, e.g. a spring action in muscles, higher control from the nervous system or core muscles. Just standing exercises “core muscles”.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing
    Seems close to the Serge Gracovetsky’s “controlled instability” I hope he and others physicists begins to think in scoliosis.

    ‘The core muscles are deep muscle layers that lie close to the spine and provide structural support. The transverse abdominals wrap around the spine and function as a compression corset’


    Some professionals talk about 'The Myth of Core Stability' saying that abs are not necessarily more important than other muscles.. some exercises as Pilates were questioned. Probablyly abs are not so much important having a normal spine, being young and having good health ans habits but at least when curves are not absolutely normal, surely are very important and (surely) specially if there are in the frontal plane. If I not remember bad, the scientis ABR inventor (Leonid Blyum ) said that not only skeletal muscles, tendons, ligaments and rib cage holds the spine. But also facias, smooth muscles, nerves, veins, skin and organs (pneumatic skeleton). It has sense for me. What may happen if all those components would be removed from the back? (nobody did that proof?) I doubt so much that the spine may holds so good the head, shoulders, scapulas and arms only counting with ligaments, skeletal muscles, tendons and the rib cage. If certainly it would not be possible as I think, the more compact/solid the pneumatic skeleton is, more stable would be the spine.
    Maybe Blyum is right and only activating the smooth muscles the ps may have a significant volumen increment. Ok but I suppose not only size matters. Firmness is also important and we may see the trunk as a recipient containiig the ps, so the most resistants the wall of that recipient, the more resistant will be the ps inside.. and more stable should be the spine. The back wall of this recipient is never flacid or weak, so no problem with that wall, but the front wall may be prominent, flacid and weak so the ps could not be solid enough. And abs would be the wall surronding the front of the pneumatic skeleton (ps). So more firme the abs, more compact the ps would be and then, more stable the spine and all the trunk.
    Last edited by flerc; 02-17-2013 at 10:56 AM.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    reno,nevada
    Posts
    4,312

    Historical Bracing Blog

    In talking about bracing solutions, I stumbled across this blog that shows many of the different braces used in the years past. I was fortunate that I missed this......Very interesting designs from all over, including European designs.

    People have put an immense amount of effort into something that seems to make sense, but at what cost?

    Was or is this kind of mental and physical torture possibly worth a few degrees? To dodge a surgery for a few years during your best times, your teen years? Many would say no.

    http://kuehnegger.blogspot.com/2012/05/frame.html

    Scoliosis awareness has come a long way and for a good reason.....I am amazed at how many of us are afflicted with this disorder, and how many de-novo and senior spinal patients there are.

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 62, the new 63...
    Pre surgery curves T70,L70
    ALIF/PSA T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,976
    I don't believe that nobody may use brace or even doing something not wanting to do it, only for reduce a few degrees.
    During growth, many degrees may be reduced with brace or progresion may be stopped, because the internal and permanent (until growth is finish) force of growth may be realigned. Then we have not any more a 'good' force correcting the curve.. at least we walk head down by roofs.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    9,289
    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    During growth, many degrees may be reduced with brace
    If that is true then why don't the brace manufacturers claim it? They only claim bracing can (hopefully) stop progression. Even the brace manufacturers don't believe brace can permanently reduce curves even in growing kids.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,976
    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    If that is true then why don't the brace manufacturers claim it? They only claim bracing can (hopefully) stop progression. Even the brace manufacturers don't believe brace can permanently reduce curves even in growing kids.
    Are you sure? Why then they recommends to use it?

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    9,289
    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    Are you sure? Why then they recommends to use it?
    I have never seen anyone with relevant training claim and prove a brace can reduce an AIS curve permanently which is what I thought we were talking about.

    Bracing can reduce JIS curves at least until the adolescent growth spurt and hopefully through that.

    If the brace makers don't claim it, then no surgeon should be claiming it.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    9,289
    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    Are you sure? Why then they recommends to use it?
    They recommend bracing to hopefully stop progression ONLY. That is why the bracing window stops at 40*.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,748
    Quote Originally Posted by titaniumed View Post
    In talking about bracing solutions, I stumbled across this blog that shows many of the different braces used in the years past. I was fortunate that I missed this......Very interesting designs from all over, including European designs.

    People have put an immense amount of effort into something that seems to make sense, but at what cost?

    Was or is this kind of mental and physical torture possibly worth a few degrees? To dodge a surgery for a few years during your best times, your teen years? Many would say no.

    http://kuehnegger.blogspot.com/2012/05/frame.html

    Scoliosis awareness has come a long way and for a good reason.....I am amazed at how many of us are afflicted with this disorder, and how many de-novo and senior spinal patients there are.

    Ed
    All I can say to that blog is wow! It makes one wonder how a person could even get into one of those contraptions. It's so sad!
    Be happy!
    We don't know what tomorrow brings,
    but we are alive today!

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,976
    They believe that can stop progression and reduce curve but not permanently. So if a curve of xº was reduced to (x-n)º , they are absolutely sure that at least will increase nº. Never only (n-1)º . Fantastic precision! I want to know the mathematical model showing that!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •