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Thread: How prominent is your abdomen?

  1. #1
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    How prominent is your abdomen?

    I want to know if it is something common in IS as it seems to be (because abdominal weakness) in some diseases causing scoliosis as Pompe.
    I want to know that, since a chiropractor surgeon (both specialties) said me once that a prominent abdomen is a condition present in someone having a big curve and I believe he was not thinking in hyperlordosis (what sure lead to it)
    I believe I finally understood why a firm abdomen is really something important to avoid progression and I suppose that abdominal muscular weakness should to provoke a prominent abdomen.

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
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    I don't have a prominent abdomen. I suppose it depend on where the curve is. If it causes your rib cage to hit your hips, then the tummy has nowhere to go but out.
    Be happy!
    We don't know what tomorrow brings,
    but we are alive today!

  3. #3
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    Hi Rorher! How are you? Thanks for your reply, is something important for me to know about that, because it would be the last step in the anŠlisis Iím doing about abdominal muscles. I conclude after an extremely simple and elemental reasoning I did in the last days, that are really very important in the fight against the gravity force, the great enemy leading to progression. Itís a matter of physics laws. I cannot believe that nobody says nothing about that.. only the Abr (Advanced Biomechanical Rehabilitation) inventor says something having to do with my reasoning.. probably because he is physicist, who knows..
    In a normal spine probably they are not so much useful (except for avoid vertebral displacement and hyperlordosis) but in a big scoliotic curve, I conclude is something really important, specially (or only, Iím not sure) for lumbar (or TL) curves. This could be the reason about why you may have not weak abdominals, If I not remember bad, your curve is not lumbar and also is very probably that not idiopatic, probably another reason.

    I have never read about prominent abdomen as a scoliosis sympton as I have read is for Pompe disease and they not say that could be a consequence of scoliosis, they says is because abdominal muscular weakness.
    I donít think that could be happening with my daugher what you say about ribs, she has now again a prominent abdomen since again she stop dancing. Some years ago with almost the same curve she has now, she had nothing prominent her abdomen and she was doing arabic dance and other so hard kind of dances that surely strenghten the ab muscles. I know many girls of her age, also thin some of them, not doing hard exercise and none of them has a prominent abdomen. My wife also has a prominent abdomen and we discovered recently she has a (so mild) scoliosis. Only when she was a competing athlete, she had not it prominent. Her sister of her same age is also very thin and have not it prominent, and as her sons, not scoliosis.

    I believe that probably occurs in most IS cases but not in all, as seems to occurs with abnormal arches feet. Anyway to know that, play the rol of Ďevidenceí for me, that my reasoning is right. Iím almost decided to convince my daughter to do some kind of exercises to strenghten her abdomen. Time ago, I said to Kevin_Mc in another thread that I cannot imagine what may have to do muscular strenght in order to avoid progression and now Iím sure it's necessary.. I should to have a more fast mind..

    I hope you are fine.

  4. #4
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    Yes, it's nice to hear from you again, Flerc. As far as back health goes, strong abs are a must, not just for the scoliosis patient, but for everyone. Otherwise, people set themselves up for a lifetime of lower back pain. I really think it's more of a mechanical thing. My scoliosis was diagnosed as AIS. I strongly hold the opinion that curve location and severity are what contribute to a prominent abdomen. In those with mild curves or a healthy back, prominent abdomens, in my opinion, are probably due to lack of exercise of those muscles and possibly a poor diet. During one of my Anatomy and Physiology classes I learned that there are genetic characteristics that cause people to accumulate body fat in different parts of the body. This body fat distribution is important because certain types of fat distribution contribute more to cardiovascular disease. The "pear" shaped person supposedly has a lower risk for CV disease. It's the "apple" shaped person, one that carries fat accumulations above the legs, that is the highest risk for CV disease. I am very thin. However when I do gain weight, I tend to be an "apple" as are my sisters. So I exercise and keep myself at a healthy weight and do not carry excess belly fat.

    If your daughter has stopped dancing, that would explain her gain of belly fat, especially if she is predisposed to it from her mother. Physical activity is important for everyone. The longer a person waits to start, the more difficult it seems to become to lose those unwanted pounds in the areas that count. I'm not convinced that this is scoli related, but more of a genetic predisposition since you see so many non-scoliotic people with the same problem.

    I am not doing well. My scoliosis has caused impingement syndrome with my right scapula, which in turn, caused some rotator cuff damage. It's really painful. My ribs hurt as does my spine from top to bottom. I don't really know why my lower back hurts so much. I have mild arthritis and DDD with some mild facet joint disease at L5/S1. It doesn't seem enough to cause the kind of pain I have. I'm being sent back to the surgeon, who will probably do nothing. But I need my scoli evaluated again since it's been a few years.

    Take care!
    Be happy!
    We don't know what tomorrow brings,
    but we are alive today!

  5. #5
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    My lumbar curve measures 63 and my abdomen defiinitely protrudes. I see a physiatrist on a regular basis and part of her routine evaluation is how much my abdomen protrudes. It's always mentioned on the notes. I'm slim and fit but the belly is always there. I am able to "suck it in" somewhat, but it hurts: my ribs sit on my pelvis and the pain is referred to where my ribs have rotated out in the back. A protruding belly is definitely the lesser problem!

  6. #6
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    Hi Rohrer, certainly something good to talk with you again.
    In fact there is a great discussion about the convenience in having strong abs. Here http://www.cpdo.net/lecture_notes/cs....ppt#265,1,The
    you may find good arguments against that.
    I know old people that never did something leading to strenghten their abs and never had back pain, but they had nor scoliosis, not lordosis. With a lumbar curve, Iíd say itís a matter of forces distribution. Certainly, what Iím now absolutely sure is that strong abs are a possitive static factor (I explained what I mean here: http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...to-Dr-McIntire ) as we may say the same about resistant ligaments, but I should to know about so many anatomy facts in order to estimate how much they can improve the static structure, something absolutely important in the fight against the gravity force.

    What I think is that if none with a lumbar curve has weak abdominals, it would be reasonable to believe that the contribution against the gravity force effect is very low, so it would seems better to dedicate time in other strategy.
    Yes, I also suppose that there is a genetic predisposition in her case and I belive that probably is not only a matter of fat accumulation but a muscular weakness in that zone. It seems to be a fact that it provokes a prominent abdomen. I suppose that although a natural weakness, exercises strenghten them anyway, leading to the reduction of the belt and improving the structure resistant. Unfortunately sit up exercises seems to be bad for everybody.

    Iím really sorry to know you continuos in pain. Iím not sure to understand the matter with your scapula.. the spine is touching it?
    I agree that a surgeon will not do nothing.. except you were thinking in surgery.. I donít remember if you think that would not be possible because something about fusion. Is not possible yet a fusionless surgery in adults? Something with only bars? I have read something about daytona, a new spine surgery, but they not mentions nothing about that.

    I have read so much about arthritis and as I know there is not a surgery nor safe drugs for it, so you cannot expect nothing from official western medicine.. but it seems to be tons of alternatives out of it . Sure not so many alternatives, but something similar may be say about DDD.
    The last I have read about arthritis is about a factor against it only present in butter from raw milk and breastmilk that seems to avoid the accumulation of calcium in joints.
    I have read about ancestral eastern exercises and massages for neck that probably works with you. Something more hard and new would be Atlas Profilaxis.. anyway I believe you need to look for an actual Master in Chinese medicine. There are not so many around the world (even in China).. but surely you may find one in your country.
    Donít stop to look the best for you.
    See you

  7. #7
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    Hi Flerc

    I used to have 6 pack abdominals when I was young from being an active snow skier, now I have just have the 6 pack.
    If I come to Argentina and eat the great steaks you have and drink the great wine, I could end up in trouble from eating too much. It doesnít sound bad to me.....One of these days I will fly down when I retire.

    Some thoughts.......

    The way back braces work is not so much supporting from the back, its from holding the abdomen in which forces pressure up on the rib cage in an upward direction. This of course is good for curves and maybe why I lasted so long without surgery. I was a surgical candidate in 1975.

    I have found that traction and exercise at the same time is a good thing. On a treadmill with a vest tightly wrapped around my rib cage, upward pull of half my weight, and walking. I did this in 2000/2001.

    I also helped my sciatica swimming in the ocean. This is a gravity release and exercising at the same time. I feel that the minerals and ocean salts had something to do with this success, since I tried in a pool and didnít have the same results.

    How old is your daughter now, and what are her curves?

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 61, the new 61...
    Pre surgery curves T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by gardener View Post
    My lumbar curve measures 63 and my abdomen defiinitely protrudes. I see a physiatrist on a regular basis and part of her routine evaluation is how much my abdomen protrudes. It's always mentioned on the notes. I'm slim and fit but the belly is always there. I am able to "suck it in" somewhat, but it hurts: my ribs sit on my pelvis and the pain is referred to where my ribs have rotated out in the back. A protruding belly is definitely the lesser problem!
    Hi Gardener, thanks for let me know about your case. Iím sorry to know about the problem you are having with your ribs. I cannot imagine if it may provokes your abdomen prominent. Surely you cannot have hyperlordosis, because is difficult to imagine the vertebras rotating in two different planes. May be you have your abs something weak and that's the cause?

    I understand what you say about itís not an actual problem for you, but I would agree if the prominent abdomen would not be because weak abs.
    I suppose you had not surgery, so if it's the case, you are running a risk of progression.
    Lumbar vertebras are holding more weight that all others and they are greater to support a vertical force, but (a priori) not an horizontal force as occurs with a curve in the frontal plane, so you would be needing to improve your structure and strong abs, would contribute to fight against that horizontal force tending to increase your curve.

    Probably if you are able to suck it in, then your abs are not weak and what I'm asking, has not much sense..

    I hope you may be fine

  9. #9
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    Ed! Nice to hear you again. Let me know when you come here. I agree about great steaks and wine.. and surely you donít know the ďworstĒ of all, the sweet milk http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zylQJkxXl2...de+leche+2.jpg an argentine invention.. otherwise your stomach would be a flacid ball as mine, ha.
    Iím (almost) vegetarian and not like so much alcoholic beverages..Iím so far to be a tippical argentine (except because sweet milk).. certainly I cannot understand how I could have been born here, but anyway Iíll do an exception and weíll eat the best steaks and drink the best wine of Buenos Aires.. and of course tons of the best sweet milk Ha.

    I like your thoughts very much.
    What you say about that exercise remember me the invention of a father of a kid of my country with cerebral paralisis who cannot walk. He constructed a machine holding the torso of the kids and moving their feet forcing them to do a normal walk. Is incredible, but after a time using it they can walk!
    Some years ago, when I began to think in scoliosis I thought in something very similar. I was obssesed with antigravity.. in fact with ďnegative gravityĒ (same magnitud but opposite direction) .. I thought that if instead of walking by the floor with the head up we walk by the roof head down, the scoliosis would not be a problem for nobody. Of course it not seemed possible so I thought how could be simulated and I imagined a complex automated system with something as movil suspenders in the roof and in the floor, holding the rib cage, the pelvis and feet, so being standing up, walking or sitting down, a force from the roof and other from the floor, simulating the ďnegative gravityĒ would keep the spine straight all the time, allowing all kind off movements. I was sure it would be incomparable better than any brace, except for the fact that only could be used at home..but I thought it would be so much expensive and I had not resource to something like that and I didnít do nothing.
    But this father not thought that, he also had not so much money, he is a panel beater without a science background, but he not accepted that his son could not walk as all physicians said him.

    It was incredible for me to see some months ago the machine working. Itís also used for people with different affections. He said me about good outcomes also in IS cases..
    Of course has little to do, but I like to think I not left at all the idea .. finally I could bought a house enough big to do a good swimming pool and I donīt think only in swimming but also in ďdivingĒ.. a so funny way to achieve the "negative gravity".. some weight in the feet and using a rubber ring. If I can do it, Iím sure my daughter would enjoy it and of course it will be absolutely safe.

    I'll contunue with other comments about your good thoughts.
    See you.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    What you say about that exercise remember me the invention of a father of a kid of my country with cerebral paralisis who cannot walk. He constructed a machine holding the torso of the kids and moving their feet forcing them to do a normal walk. Is incredible, but after a time using it they can walk!
    I didn't copy any link..
    http://www.voelio.com.ar/datostecnicos.php
    http://www.voelio.com.ar/ivo.php

    "Since 2008 ..it began to generate great improvements in Ivo.. he began with the design and production of the "march educator" although the negative of physicians and relatives

    Before using Voelio (2007)
    According to professionals, the only solution he had was an emergency risotomŪa to not luxate and continue deforming the hips. HE WOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO WALK AGAIN"

    It was a much commented and troubled story .. fortunately he won.
    Last edited by flerc; 02-03-2013 at 10:55 PM.

  11. #11
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    I see.....looks similar.

    This was the system I used back in 2000/2001 and had good results for pain....Chiropractic adjustments were done after walking on the pneuback system. We used a 75# upward pull so I was light on my feet.
    http://www.pneumex.com/Pneu-Weight.html

    Does your daughter have pain?

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 61, the new 61...
    Pre surgery curves T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  12. #12
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    Chiropractors are great! The first ‘invention’ I imagined was an inertial machine when I was thinking in a non surgical way to apply a force directly over the spine. I looked in the net for something similar and yes, they have constructed an inertial machine. Until last year, my sister was in pain, because a vertebra displacement toward the chest. Certainly I forgot that this kind of force could help her, but she used it in a natural way when she fell down over her back.
    Yes, it seems to be similar to Voelio, but of course is not a motion simulator.. and not hold the feet, so the upward force should to be at least something lesser than the own weight. Anyway it seems to be many reasons about why it should to be something good, but the problem is.. how much time may someone use it? Of course is very different but this is the great advantage of braces.

    Fortunately my daughter is not in pain, certainly she is doing what she ever used to do except dancing.. in my country there is a stupid fashion and it seems a military training for the war.. all styles except tango, but she don’t like it.
    Even she seems to be 4 or 5 years younger, she is now 19 y.o. and she continues having a large thoracolumbar right curve, around 57į that seems to be stable, but I’m worry thinking in the lateral gravity force (because force decompotition) applied over the concave side all the time except while sleeping.. So I’m thinking now in strong abdominals. I'm sure they contributes in making the structure more resistant, but I cannot know how much.
    Last edited by flerc; 02-04-2013 at 02:31 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by titaniumed View Post
    The way back braces work is not so much supporting from the back, its from holding the abdomen in which forces pressure up on the rib cage in an upward direction.
    Great point! I’m thinking it suggest in some way that some prominent should to be every abdomen in someone with scoliosis. More compact the abdomen, more up the spine. Of course, probably would only be significant in big curves.
    Quote Originally Posted by titaniumed View Post

    This of course is good for curves and maybe why I lasted so long without surgery. I was a surgical candidate in 1975.
    Probably it was because your strong abs, not only because brace.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    Chiropractors are great! The first Ďinventioní I imagined was an inertial machine when I was thinking in a non surgical way to apply a force directly over the spine. I looked in the net for something similar and yes, they have constructed an inertial machine. Until last year, my sister was in pain, because a vertebra displacement toward the chest. Certainly I forgot that this kind of force could help her, but she used it in a natural way when she fell down over her back.
    Yes, it seems to be similar to Voelio, but of course is not a motion simulator.. and not hold the feet, so the upward force should to be at least something lesser than the own weight.
    It was good for me to remember all those ideas.. I'm thinking now again in down the stairs. More quick, more more need of balance, coordination, physical condition.. and more close to antigravity.

  15. #15
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    hirudopuntura

    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    The last I have read about arthritis is about a factor against it only present in butter from raw milk and breastmilk that seems to avoid the accumulation of calcium in joints.
    In fact the last what I read is about leeches. Surely not so much pleasant but seems to work.

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