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moderate scoliosis and back pain. any ideas?

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  • #31
    Happy new year cellomom,

    I just wanted to point out that there are no studies that I am aware of that have been published that address scoliosis bracing and claims to help pain. Maybe Pooka can present them for us.

    The only scoliosis brace that claims to help with pain is the SpineCor brace which is a controversial brace to begin with. We have a couple of anecdotal adult cases who say their pain has been helped by the Spinecor brace in adults, which is great news for them, but as far as I know there have been no studies published. Dear mamamax on this forum appeared to be helped in her pain with this brace, and there was a story in a Canadian newspaper about another.

    I believe any study that would be presented on reduction of pain in the Spinecor brace would come from chiropractors who market the Spinecor brace if a study ever does come out. Unfortunately, Spinecor doesn't have a great track record in the orthopedic community as far as stopping curves from progressing in the adolescent growth spurt.

    Also, there have been many recent studies that show that bracing is effective if you get a brace that effectively corrects the curve and you have a child who will wear the brace as directed without undue mental distress.

    Here is an article on bracing written by a well-regarded orthopedic surgeon which would be considered the standard of care in the orthopedic community. Much better information than what you can get from unknown people on the internet.

    http://www.spine-health.com/conditio...thic-scoliosis

    You might also want to take a look at the torso rotation threads in the research section. There are kids who seem to be doing quite well with them. They couldn't hurt and they might very well help strengthen your daughter's back at the same time stretching ligaments and help her out through her growth and perhaps help with her pain.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Ballet Mom View Post
      The only scoliosis brace that claims to help with pain is the SpineCor brace which is a controversial brace to begin with.
      I don't believe there is any such claim. The only thing that has been published is a case study of 2 adults. There were no matched controls, so there's no way of knowing if the pain went away because of time, because of the brace, or because all of the stars aligned perfectly. The original inventor of the brace never claimed that it helped with pain, although he thought that it might.
      Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
      Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by LindaRacine View Post
        I don't believe there is any such claim. The only thing that has been published is a case study of 2 adults. There were no matched controls, so there's no way of knowing if the pain went away because of time, because of the brace, or because all of the stars aligned perfectly. The original inventor of the brace never claimed that it helped with pain, although he thought that it might.
        Perhaps I wasn't clear in my post. I was replying to Pooka who said the following, which is obviously untrue:

        "Although PT probably has a better chance of addressing the pain, bracing for pain has worked in some people. For example, Spinecor is marketed to adults for pain relief. In fact the ONLY thing that bracing has been shown to help with is pain though the intent is to stop progression."

        The chiropractors who are involved with SpineCor are the ones who are promoting the SpineCor Pain Relief Back Brace. I believe they are the ones who modified the original SpineCor brace with some sort of comfortable shorts, but I could be wrong about that. They are marketing SpineCor for pain relief as can be shown if you Google. I don't know the involvement of the original inventor orthopedist.

        It actually would be nice for people if this brace did help with pain for adults. However, for Pooka to say that the ONLY thing that bracing has been shown to help with is pain is a falsehood. Number one, it hasn't been proven, and two, that would only apply to this SpineCor brace...not the other scoliosis braces which are used to stop curve progression in a growing child. And three, lots of studies have shown the scoliosis bracing does work if a brace achieves a good correction and the brace is worn as directed.

        On this site, the requirements to prove that bracing works is impossibly high and everything else is "proven" with very little to back it up, at least according to Pooka's viewpoint.
        Last edited by Ballet Mom; 01-05-2012, 07:31 AM.

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        • #34
          Anyone who claims there is good evidence bracing works in AIS is unfamiliar with the literature or can't understand it FULL STOP.

          Any surgeon will admit there is no good evidence bracing works (e.g., see Sponseller's comments) and that is why surgeons at 26 medical centers agree it is ethical to randomize kids to a no-brace study group.
          Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

          No island of sanity.

          Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
          Answer: Medicine


          "We are all African."

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Pooka1 View Post
            Anyone who claims there is good evidence bracing works in AIS is unfamiliar with the literature or can't understand it FULL STOP.

            Any surgeon will admit there is no good evidence bracing works (e.g., see Sponseller's comments) and that is why surgeons at 26 medical centers agree it is ethical to randomize kids to a no-brace study group.
            The reason surgeons agreed to randomize kids in the bracing trials is because the researchers decided there was equipoise in the medical community regarding the effectiveness of bracing. Lots of doctors believe that bracing does work in most cases and it is in fact the standard of care. You choose to ignore all that.

            "Currently, the spine medical community advocates bracing as the only non-surgical treatment for idiopathic scoliosis. The objective of bracing treatment is to prevent the curve from progressing as the child grows, and studies have shown bracing is effective in stopping the progression of the majority of adolescent scoliotic curves."

            That is a quote from Dr. McAfee in the link I posted above.

            "A member of the Committee on the Spine - American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons, Dr. McAfee also serves on the editorial boards of Spine, Journal of Spinal Disorders, and The Spine Journal."

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Ballet Mom View Post
              Lots of doctors believe that bracing does work in most cases and it is in fact the standard of care. You choose to ignore all that.
              Believing something works doesn't cut it and surgeons would admit that. Evidence cuts it when you are telling a kid to wear a brace.

              Surgeons have hope NOT evidence and they admit it. They can distinguish between the two things. Lay people, not so much.
              Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

              No island of sanity.

              Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
              Answer: Medicine


              "We are all African."

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Pooka1 View Post
                Believing something works doesn't cut it and surgeons would admit that. Evidence cuts it when you are telling a kid to wear a brace.

                Surgeons have hope NOT evidence and they admit it. They can distinguish between the two things. Lay people, not so much.
                Ask the surgeons what they think about the effectiveness of bracing with all the new studies out.

                I would suggest that if surgeons are getting poor performance from their bracing regimes they need to look into their orthotists' abilities and what they themselves might be saying to their patients that amount to a negative influence instead of a supporting influence.

                Look at the difference in results at the Mayo Clinic when they revamped their bracing regime. Amazingly different outcomes.

                http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...g-Works-in-AIS

                Comment


                • #38
                  Citing one unpublished study is proof you are not approaching this correctly.

                  You would have cited all the NOW discredited studies before they were discredited also.

                  You are working under the WRONG paradigm in looking at these studies FULL STOP.
                  Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                  No island of sanity.

                  Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                  Answer: Medicine


                  "We are all African."

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Pooka1 View Post
                    Citing one unpublished study is proof you are not approaching this correctly.

                    You would have cited all the NOW discredited studies before they were discredited also.

                    You are working under the WRONG paradigm in looking at these studies FULL STOP.

                    Keep beating that same old drum... I keep suggesting you ask the surgeons about the newest bracing studies.

                    The fact of the matter is you are very fast and loose with your science facts and you are doing a disservice to those few bracing parents who venture on to this forum which is so antagonistic to bracing.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Ballet Mom View Post
                      I keep suggesting you ask the surgeons about the newest bracing studies.
                      Asking surgeons about unpublished (or published) new studies will change NOTHING. They have already be burned with the discrediting of all the extant literature that they thought supported bracing but now know can't be claimed to support bracing. There are known unknowns and unknown unknowns. This research is hard.

                      Surgeons are working with the SAME evidence case as everyone else. Therefore their intellectually honest answer will be IDENTICAL to what I have written. Nobody is sitting on "secret" evidence. BrAIST hasn't been halted on the basis of any new study. Ask yourself why.
                      Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                      No island of sanity.

                      Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                      Answer: Medicine


                      "We are all African."

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        update

                        Well hello there people!! I see you all have been busy while I was gone....


                        We had our ortho check in this morning and he did another x ray. She progressed another 4 degree and is now 29. He has prescribed a Boston Brace and we have an appointment for a fitting on the 16th. He did not see any rotation, just the 29/30 degree curve. Her hips are also now slightly uneven but not in a noticeable way (i.e. she isn't complaining about that).

                        He said they will try to correct her so that in brace she is at 15 degrees, and said to continue the PT. The bracing is not intended to reduce pain, but to realign her spine so that her muscles are not pulling and causing her pain. He said she might find she is getting more support in the brace and this may help her pain. This is a summary of the convo, not a quote.

                        We will also do the PT twice per week going forward for core exercises. I have been getting her to actually do them and the stretches cause her relief, as does massage. Interestingly, she did not complain nearly as much during the Christmas break, when she was more relaxed. I think the stress of a heavy honors course work in school can make you tense up.

                        I am happy to see we are at least making progress to prevent the curve from progressing. She is growing like a weed and I can only assume the 1 degree per month will continue at the same rate.

                        BTW, she is in completely good spirits about the brace, which she is planning to call "Skeletor." I suppose now I shall head over to the bracing forum and hope to continue the conversation there.

                        Thanks all
                        Cello_mom

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by cello_mom View Post
                          BTW, she is in completely good spirits about the brace, which she is planning to call "Skeletor." I suppose now I shall head over to the bracing forum and hope to continue the conversation there.
                          Good that she is being positive about the idea of a brace and I hope it helps with the pain and progression.

                          By the way, the Bracing section is intended only for kids to talk with other kids about bracing. Parents are not supposed to post there.
                          Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                          No island of sanity.

                          Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                          Answer: Medicine


                          "We are all African."

                          Comment

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