Have any adults tried Schroth Therapy?

[GHD1959]

Shroth

I am a 52 year old male with a 55 degree mid thorasic curve and I have had severe sacroilliac pain for years. I have tried so many things with no luck. No one will address the Sacroilliac pain, but I didn't know that the Schroth therapy was less than 15 minutes from my house. I don't know what to do anymore, do you think the Schroth method is worth the money?

[TOscoliosis]

I am a 52 year old male with a 55 degree mid thorasic curve and I have had severe sacroilliac pain for years. I have tried so many things with no luck. No one will address the Sacroilliac pain, but I didn't know that the Schroth therapy was less than 15 minutes from my house. I don't know what to do anymore, do you think the Schroth method is worth the money?

It looks like that's a "no" on anyone having tried the Schroth Method on this Forum. I'm surprised. I thought it was one of the more respected and well-known approaches.

I'm guessing that you're close to Scoliosis Rehab Inc. in Phoenix, Arizona. They also have a clinic in Wisconsin which I'm thinking of going to. The cost information that I received was that a 15 minute 1 on 1 session costs $65.00. If I go to the one week intensive that would mean paying $5200.00 with whatever deductions for insurance if applicable. I wouldn't want to comment on whether it's worth it without having experienced it myself. As you're so close you can go for single visits, which means you can get acquainted with their methods without a big financial commitment. If you visit them I'd be very interested to know how it goes for you. Please keep in touch on the Forum or message me privately if you'd prefer.

My personal opinion is that your sacroiliac pain and scoliosis can and should be dealt with at the same time. You have one whole body, and although this expression is kind of overused: it's all connected. I am a teacher of the Alexander Technique and a practitioner of Structural Integration. These are methods which I've used to very good effect with my own scoliosis and old pain issues. No more pain, and my body is unwinding in exciting ways. My pics are attached to this message. I did some looking around and there are people in Phoenix who do these modalities. Both approaches would work on your sacroiliac pain and help with your scoliosis at the same time. If you'd like me to message you with some people near you let me know.

[GHD1959]

Wow

Those pics are amazing as far as the difference in your back.

[GHD1959]

Pain

Hi,

Thanks for the reply, I don't have $5200.00 for Schroth at this time, but I need to call them back to check on my Insurance. I would be interested in anyone you reccommend in my area, I don't know what to do anymore. I had found a sacrolilliac surgeon who does a method called Si-Bone which is supposed to conquer the sacro problem ,but they don't take my insurance and no one ever addresses the sacro pain, just the scoliosis and its usually have surgery, or go to PT which does nothing. Please send me the names if you would be so kind.

Thanks, Gregg

[TOscoliosis]

Absolutely! The info is on its way.

[Pooka1]

@GHD1959,

Schroth = PT. If you think PT doesn't work then you don't want to drop $5200 on Schroth.

[3sisters]

We are off to Schroth klinik! And I am an adult.

Firstly; let me start by saying that I am optimistic, an adult, and going to the Katharina Schroth Klinik in Bad Sobernheim, Germany, for four weeks. If anyone has any experience to share, I would appreciate it.
If anyone disagrees with my approach, PLEASE don't post it here after my comment because I am going and I don't want to carry or hear negativity. I appreciate your right to disagree, but I don't want a send-off with negative feelings or pessimism for us, please! I want this to be as positive experience as possible for me and my daughter. So many opinions and hopes. This is ours! I've made it up to 49 degrees or so with a good quality of life but would really like to stop progressing, and give my daughter a better opportunity than I had.
After a creepingly progressive scoliosis curve, and a new, big "S" curve in my 12 yr old daughter, we are off to learn and improve together. She will get her Cheneau brace in about two weeks. We start our in-patient klinik experience on February 8th. Luckily, we live in Germany so the transportation is not an issue (we live about an hour and a half away.) I plan on sharing our new information with all who are interested.
By the way, for those interested in ballet, my daughter is a dancer with six years experience and hard-earned wonderful flexibility and spine suppleness. I anticipate this will help make her a better patient than I!
We are only going to the clinic for four weeks (the minimum recommended time!) but I am starting my daughter with four personal physical therapy sessions (one each of the preceding weeks before our session) with a Katharina Schroth trained therapist to get us a start on familiarizing ourselves with our new plan. Stay tuned for reports on our visit. Anyone else going or has been there?

[LindaRacine]

Firstly; let me start by saying that I am optimistic, an adult, and going to the Katharina Schroth Klinik in Bad Sobernheim, Germany, for four weeks. If anyone has any experience to share, I would appreciate it.
If anyone disagrees with my approach, PLEASE don't post it here after my comment because I am going and I don't want to carry or hear negativity. I appreciate your right to disagree, but I don't want a send-off with negative feelings or pessimism for us, please! I want this to be as positive experience as possible for me and my daughter. So many opinions and hopes. This is ours! I've made it up to 49 degrees or so with a good quality of life but would really like to stop progressing, and give my daughter a better opportunity than I had.
After a creepingly progressive scoliosis curve, and a new, big "S" curve in my 12 yr old daughter, we are off to learn and improve together. She will get her Cheneau brace in about two weeks. We start our in-patient klinik experience on February 8th. Luckily, we live in Germany so the transportation is not an issue (we live about an hour and a half away.) I plan on sharing our new information with all who are interested.
By the way, for those interested in ballet, my daughter is a dancer with six years experience and hard-earned wonderful flexibility and spine suppleness. I anticipate this will help make her a better patient than I!
We are only going to the clinic for four weeks (the minimum recommended time!) but I am starting my daughter with four personal physical therapy sessions (one each of the preceding weeks before our session) with a Katharina Schroth trained therapist to get us a start on familiarizing ourselves with our new plan. Stay tuned for reports on our visit. Anyone else going or has been there?

Boy, asking people not to post anything negative is like dangling a bit carrot.

I wish you the best of luck. All I can tell you is that there is NO long-term study showing that Schroth had any positive effect. I hope you can tell us, in 10-20 years, whether your daughter has avoided further treatment. Unfortunately, even if she doesn't need treatment, it doesn't mean that Schroth had any effect, as it's certainly possible that doing nothing would have given her the result.

Regards,
Linda

[TOscoliosis]

Firstly; let me start by saying that I am optimistic, an adult, and going to the Katharina Schroth Klinik in Bad Sobernheim, Germany, for four weeks. If anyone has any experience to share, I would appreciate it.
If anyone disagrees with my approach, PLEASE don't post it here after my comment because I am going and I don't want to carry or hear negativity. I appreciate your right to disagree, but I don't want a send-off with negative feelings or pessimism for us, please! I want this to be as positive experience as possible for me and my daughter. So many opinions and hopes. This is ours! I've made it up to 49 degrees or so with a good quality of life but would really like to stop progressing, and give my daughter a better opportunity than I had.
After a creepingly progressive scoliosis curve, and a new, big "S" curve in my 12 yr old daughter, we are off to learn and improve together. She will get her Cheneau brace in about two weeks. We start our in-patient klinik experience on February 8th. Luckily, we live in Germany so the transportation is not an issue (we live about an hour and a half away.) I plan on sharing our new information with all who are interested.
By the way, for those interested in ballet, my daughter is a dancer with six years experience and hard-earned wonderful flexibility and spine suppleness. I anticipate this will help make her a better patient than I!
We are only going to the clinic for four weeks (the minimum recommended time!) but I am starting my daughter with four personal physical therapy sessions (one each of the preceding weeks before our session) with a Katharina Schroth trained therapist to get us a start on familiarizing ourselves with our new plan. Stay tuned for reports on our visit. Anyone else going or has been there?

Good luck at the Schroth Clinic! I hope you and your daughter learn a lot and have success with your scoliosis. Success is certainly possible. Although I haven't done the Schroth Method I have read their research and their book on 3 dimensional treatment. I had a set of X-rays taken this December and I received the radiologist's report today. My thoracic curve was 42 degrees in 1996, 29 degrees in 2003, and now 27 degrees. I plan to go for X-rays again in two years. My goal is to get my thoracic curve beneath 20 degrees. I'm looking forward to reading about your experience on this thread!

Two X-ray images:
Lumbar 2003 + 2011 combined.jpg
Thoracic comparison with lines 1996 and 2011.jpg
Photographic image:
combined front.jpg

[3sisters]

Why I would post

Boy, asking people not to post anything negative is like dangling a bit carrot.

I don't think so. I think we want to lift up each other and find support and share information. Someone will want to know what I experience, just like I want to know what others are going through and where I might find myself one day. Or decisions we each might have to make one day for ourselves or a loved one.

Besides, even someone who chooses a different path (or doesn't have another options for their situation) can grow a lot by knowing what else is going on, and maybe learn something that might help in the future. I knew NOTHING 25 years ago. (my doctor didn't either

[Pooka1]

I don't think so. I think we want to lift up each other and find support and share information. Someone will want to know what I experience, just like I want to know what others are going through and where I might find myself one day. Or decisions we each might have to make one day for ourselves or a loved one.

Besides, even someone who chooses a different path (or doesn't have another options for their situation) can grow a lot by knowing what else is going on, and maybe learn something that might help in the future. I knew NOTHING 25 years ago. (my doctor didn't either

Those are good points but you have to realize that Schroth has been around for over 90 years. I am told it is still a fringe treatment even in Germany. Weiss, K. Schroth's grandson openly opined in 2009 about whether PT like Schroth works. After all those years and with him at the helm for about 10 of those years with some 30,000 patients in just that time. He is not a surgeon despite what resumes you might see online but is a trained researcher and can write up research results competently. Him not being a surgeon explains his interest in conservative therapies and why he also does bracing in addition to PT. Weiss is no longer at the Schroth clinic by the way.

And surgery goes on as ever in Germany, almost as if Schroth didn't exist.

[rohrer01]

Good luck at the Schroth Clinic! I hope you and your daughter learn a lot and have success with your scoliosis. Success is certainly possible. Although I haven't done the Schroth Method I have read their research and their book on 3 dimensional treatment. I had a set of X-rays taken this December and I received the radiologist's report today. My thoracic curve was 42 degrees in 1996, 29 degrees in 2003, and now 27 degrees. I plan to go for X-rays again in two years. My goal is to get my thoracic curve beneath 20 degrees. I'm looking forward to reading about your experience on this thread!

Two X-ray images:
[ATTACH]1177[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]1178[/ATTACH]
Photographic image:
[ATTACH]1179[/ATTACH]

TOscoliosis,
I looked at all of your images. Your appearance is certainly better and your lumbar x-rays appear to show quite a curve reduction. However, the thoracic "lines" mean nothing if you are trying to measure a curve. You have lines that are clearly not the endpoints of the curve and actually encompass the S-shape feature within a supposed curve. It really appears that your thoracic curve has increased. That's not to say that you aren't making progress, as the lumbar looks really good, as I already mentioned. I think, though, that sometimes we scoli's give and take with our curves. For example, I "look" much more balanced than I did even 10 years ago, as I used to have a very elevated left shoulder. My appearance is deceiving, as both curves have gotten bigger, especially the lower curve. That increase in the lower curve is what brought my shoulder down. I'm not trying to be a downer, as you clearly look better in the newer photos. I'm just cautioning you not to be deceived by appearances. Exercise is always good for us. If you feel better and look better, then that improves your quality of life, which is all some of us can hope to ask for. Are you doing Schroth or a different program? Whichever, I wish you the best.

Scratch that last question. I just reread your post which clearly says that you are NOT doing Schroth.
I've actually considered Schroth just to improve muscle strenth. But I would have no further expectations. Muscle strength is a very good thing, though. It reduces pain and improves appearance.

[TAMZTOM]

If anyone has any experience to share, I would appreciate it. ... I don't want to carry or hear negativity. ... I plan on sharing our new information with all who are interested. ...my daughter is a dancer with six years experience and hard-earned wonderful flexibility and spine suppleness. ... We are only going to the clinic for four weeks (the minimum recommended time!) but I am starting my daughter with four personal physical therapy sessions...with a Katharina Schroth trained therapist to get us a start on familiarizing ourselves with our new plan. Stay tuned for reports on our visit.

Hi 3sisters

Your offer to share your experience is generous. It will help many to make choices, refine technique, achieve more correction and appearance. Many negative posts betray a need to justify previous decisions, irrationality and often complete ignorance; others evince lack of respect and incomprehension of how important being positive is to achieving correction. That many patients have corrected is fact; I'd hazard that most had positive attitudes. To spout negativity betrays weakess. Feeding negative posters with long argument is like responding to spam--best policy is to ignore or swiftly dismiss the negative and focus. Enough...time to be productive!

My own daughter has prepared for ballet classes for the last few weeks. She does her first proper class this evening. I am aware that some Schroth principles proscribe some ballet moves: for example, a left side bend would "feed" a right side thoracic curve; maintaining range of movement, however, is important for correction, stability and body symmetry. I believe Schroth and such ballet moves can be reconciled: Schroth seeks to entrench a non-scoliotic posture and over-correction of extant misalignment and curve--this requires re-jigged proprioception, erasing the scoliotic subconscious. This is necessary to at least remove the postural percentage of most curves. (Progression can be a "vicious cycle"; removing the postural percentage can induce a "virtuous cycle", further correction. It can result in patients' curves dropping below the "progression threshold".) Schroth exercise can RAISE the progression threshold (so can Dobomed, SEAS, Torso Rotation, Pilates, Yoga...and ballet). You win both ways. Schroth can increase muscular strength and proprioception for most hours per day; ballet can increase flexibility, strength and cardiovascular health during a relatively small portion of the day--i.e., not enough to worsen curves, but actually enough to build a body capable of correction. Great example...Wendy Whelan, world class ballerina with moderate curves (I think she may have a 35 degree thoracic curve).

Re. the 4 visits before the intensive course
When we did Schroth in London, there was a 17 yr old girl (Riser 5) attending (mother there too to learn); she had T55, L27 curves; she did 4 one day sessions and read the book before attending the intensive course. Her ability to over-correct, maintain corrected posture throughout the long days and her IMPROVEMENT six months later is inspiring. The mother and daughter team were light years ahead of Tamzin and me. Your preparation is impeccable. We will undoubtedly learn much from you and your daughter.
4 weeks is sufficient in my opinion. Even though the original Schroth patients did 3 months, with a positive attitude and the determination to continue exercising after the clinic, you will both be well equipped to run a great race. :-)

ROHRER
I've actually considered Schroth just to improve muscle strenth. But I would have no further expectations. Muscle strength is a very good thing, though. It reduces pain and improves appearance.

Worthwhile goals, Rohrer. This thread would benefit if you do the course and give you usual, objective, respectful and considered feedback.

LindaRacine
Boy, asking people not to post anything negative is like dangling a bit carrot.

What type of person revels in being negative!

LindaRacine
Unfortunately, even if she doesn't need treatment, it doesn't mean that Schroth had any effect, as it's certainly possible that doing nothing would have given her the result.

Despite requiring scientific precision for studies showing exercise therapy works, this poster drops their standard to "certainly possible" to dismiss exercise based correction. PS: a repeat surgery poster who 'in all likelihood' (:-))is quite sedentary.

TOscoliosis

Great post by TOscoliosis, i.e., someone who has corrected, improved his physical appearance and is positive.

Pooka
Schroth has been around for over 90 years.
I am told it is still a fringe treatment even in Germany.
30,000 patients.
He is not a surgeon.
Him not being a surgeon explains his interest in conservative therapies and why he also does bracing in addition to PT.
And surgery goes on as ever in Germany, almost as if Schroth didn't exist.

90 years and still going! Fantastic. Suggests there's something in it!
Scoliosis surgery has been around since the 19th C; big bucks involved, no wonder the medical establishment tries to denounce everything non-surgical. Especially with the repeat business surgeons get! (I believe that for many patients, surgery is the only answer; I respect the courage of those who've had it done.)
"Fringe treatment": it is a tough task to use exercise to correct scoliosis, it will always be only the few who can succeed, so being fringe is similar to saying only a few people make it to the top. That Weiss is not a surgeon matters not a jot; personally, I too suspect Weiss of being very interested in making bucks, which, ironically, makes him quite surgeon-like. :-) (That was facetious, apologies.)


To the poster: great to have you on board.

[Pooka1]

Tom,

My comments pertain to straight AIS. That has seen the most research by far as far as I know. My comments are not known to be necessarily relevant to Marfans scoliosis, C/SM scoliosis, other syndromic scoliosis, etc. or any NON-straight AIS scoliosis and shouldn't be mapped on to them.

According to that one Marfans bracing paper, apparently nothing will overcome bracing failure for those certain Marfans cases for example or that is the impression I get from reading it.

[TAMZTOM]

Tom,
According to that one Marfans bracing paper, apparently nothing will overcome bracing failure for those certain Marfans cases for example or that is the impression I get from reading it.

Hi Sharon
Flying out the door to Tamzin's ballet class--an hour drive--and just finished Scarlett training run. No time.
I know zilch about Marfans, so can't comment. I wonder, though, if the muscular issues and bracing failure tell us more about AIS, viz., bracing alone has limited success, must work the muscles too.
I really do wish many more potential and past Schroth patient lurkers on this forum would chip in re. their Schroth experiences. I really hope Rohrer will go for it; I know 3sisters will give it 100% and her daughter will excel. It'd be a great live study RIGHT HERE IN THIS THREAD TO follow a few kids and adults through the next few years. What great research potential. Forget past studies. What an opportunity for a researcher!!! (Hint, hint.)