Questions fo rour Clear Chiro, Smith

[Ballet Mom]

I am 68. I was fused T-4 to sacrum 8 years ago. I am absolutely, delightfully pain free.

My original,(1956) old fashioned, non-instrumented fusion T-4 to L-2 lasted 46 years. I had a triple curves. The compensatory curve below the original fusion doubled in the last 20 years before my revision.

I really shudder when I hear parents with children having large curves delay surgery. It always gets worse and really damages the psyche of an adolescent--during the time when body image is so important.

I said odds. If there are sixty percent odds of someone developing pain who are fused at a certain vertebrae, forty percent are not going to develop pain.

My comment was in response to someone who is trying to tell people that bracing isn't worthwhile, even if they end up with a smaller curve, because pain can occur in old age in people with scoliosis. It can also occur in people who are fused as they age. It happened to me as I aged and I don't have scoliosis...I should exercise more. Duh.

I have to tell you, I'm really sick of people on this site telling everyone that bracing is worthless, or that for 75 percent of kids the bracing was unneccessary. You are all leading kids astray. It is worthwhile to minimize a deformity. Pooka's own child chose to discontinue her brace because she didn't like the look of her back when it was in the high 30s, if I remember correctly. But Pooka would have everyone else not wear a brace and end up with the same or worse deformity. Think about that. She doesn't have kids best interests at heart.

I really hope no kids stray onto this site. Parents should keep them far, far away from here.

[Ballet Mom]

What I find truly disconcerting is the relative ease with which some folks leap to conspiracy theories. Day to day existence seems taxing for some folks. I think a scoliosis diagnosis actually breaks some parents based on certain posts here on the forum. Life is cruel and unfair.

The Scoliscore docs could have developed the same test to determine who would progress past 30 degrees, couldn't they? As far as I'm concerned, that would have been a much more useful set of parameters. But they didn't. For a reason.

[hdugger]

In the most general way, I'd say that parents need to believe that the treatment they chose for their child was the right one, and that the treatment they didn't choose was the wrong one.

For this reason, I'd fully expect people whose children unsuccessfully braced and went on to surgery to believe that bracing would not have worked and that surgery was the right decision. Likewise, I'd expect people who successfully braced to believe that the bracing was necessary to stop the progression.

I don't say this to cast doubt on the beliefs - they may well be true and they may well be supported by research - but rather to mention why I think these topics draw so much heat. My perception is that the emotional heat in these topics has everything to do with a parent's need to believe that the difficult thing they put their children through (bracing or surgery) was good and necessary, and nothing whatsoever to do with facts.

[Pooka1]

For this reason, I'd fully expect people whose children unsuccessfully braced and went on to surgery to believe that bracing would not have worked and that surgery was the right decision.

Yeah but that "belief" is held not just by those parents but also by the experienced pediatric orthopedic surgeons at no less than 26 facilities.

Cozy group that. You'd need to rent a hall.

Scoliscore independently confirms the previous conclusion that upwards of 70% of kids are needlessly braced. And the jury is still out on the efficacy of bracing in the remaining percentage.

When you have independent mutually buttressing evidence it lends further credence to both though it's all still only provisionally true in this bracing game.

[Pooka1]

In the most general way, I'd say that parents need to believe that the treatment they chose for their child was the right one, and that the treatment they didn't choose was the wrong one.

Belief is not applicable nor necessary.

Acceptance of evidence or acceptance of a lack of evidence is the only rational game in town. And knowing risks is helpful.

This is medicine.

[Pooka1]

Psychological diagnosis is within the medical realm,

No. Psychiatric diagnosis is within the medical realm.

I am not so sure about Psychological diagnosis.

Psychiatry is a medical specialty and all psychiatrists have medical degrees.

Clinical psychologists can prescribe certain drugs though. They have come up either through the more academic route or the other route ("Denver" school"?). The only reason I know a bit about this is because my cousin is one, my best friend from junior high is one, and another boarder at my barn is in the process of getting her Psych D. (D. Psych?).

I am not abundantly clear on the line between Psychiatrists and Clinical Psychologists in terms of what they do.

[hdugger]

This is medicine.

The *heat* of the discussion is not medical - it's all about parents needing to believe that they've done right by their child.

That's worth clarifying for newcomers stumbling upon this discussion and wondering what people are all 'het up' about. My contention is that the heat is all parental protection. The facts are slim to none, and not capable of producing these many flames.

Given those understandable prejudices amongst the participating parents, I'd strongly advise anyone needing a clear, unbiased opinion on the topic of bracing to talk to their surgeon and not be swayed by the fire in these discussions.

[Pooka1]

The *heat* of the discussion is not medical - it's all about parents needing to believe that they've done right by their child.

The heat is confined to those with emotion driving their beliefs.

There is no heat for those driven by a sober attempt to understand the evidence and accept the lack of evidence rather than make it up and try to pass it off as reality. Not that those rational people cannot be overcome by emotion but they can try to recognize it when it is coming on and try to start making sense again.

That's worth clarifying for newcomers stumbling upon this discussion and wondering what people are all 'het up' about. My contention is that the heat is all parental protection. The facts are slim to none, and not capable of producing these many flames.

The heat is all emotion driven by ignorance.

Given those understandable prejudices amongst the participating parents, I'd strongly advise anyone needing a clear, unbiased opinion on the topic of bracing to talk to their surgeon and not be swayed by the fire in these discussions.

Concur completely.

[Ballet Mom]

The *heat* of the discussion is not medical - it's all about parents needing to believe that they've done right by their child.

That's worth clarifying for newcomers stumbling upon this discussion and wondering what people are all 'het up' about. My contention is that the heat is all parental protection. The facts are slim to none, and not capable of producing these many flames.

Given those understandable prejudices amongst the participating parents, I'd strongly advise anyone needing a clear, unbiased opinion on the topic of bracing to talk to their surgeon and not be swayed by the fire in these discussions.

I absolutely agree that parents should speak with their surgeon...actually two or three surgeons is even better if you can possibly afford it.

I disagree that my comments are from some need to believe I've done right by my child. I am actually fighting for the right of other parents to choose bracing if they and their child are willing to do it. Pooka is trying to help deny parents the ability to choose for themselves and you should wonder why.

And then she uses Soviet tactics to claim that those who disagree with her party line are mentally incapacitated in some way? You should wonder why.

[Ballet Mom]

The heat is confined to those with emotion driving their beliefs.

There is no heat for those driven by a sober attempt to understand the evidence and accept the lack of evidence rather than make it up and try to pass it off as reality. Not that those rational people cannot be overcome by emotion but they can try to recognize it when it is coming on and try to start making sense again.



The heat is all emotion driven by ignorance.



Concur completely.

What Soviet bullshit.

[Pooka1]

What Soviet bullshit.

I rest my case.

Love,
The Woldwide Anti-Bracing Conspiracy

[Ballet Mom]

Yeah but that "belief" is held not just by those parents but also by the experienced pediatric orthopedic surgeons at no less than 26 facilities.

Cozy group that. You'd need to rent a hall.

Scoliscore independently confirms the previous conclusion that upwards of 70% of kids are needlessly braced. And the jury is still out on the efficacy of bracing in the remaining percentage.

When you have independent mutually buttressing evidence it lends further credence to both though it's all still only provisionally true in this bracing game.

Just because orthopedic surgeons decided to participate in a study doesn't mean they believe bracing doesn't work. They simply decided to further research.

Scoliscore independently confirms the previous conclusion that upwards of 70% of kids are needlessly braced.

Not true. You're just spouting your party line.

[Pooka1]

Just because orthopedic surgeons decided to participate in a study doesn't mean they don't believe bracing doesn't work. They simply decided to further research.

If they believed it worked then they wouldn't think it was ethical to randomize HALF(!) the kids into an observation group. Further research is UNETHICAL if they thought it worked and you know it. Unless you are claiming they are unethical in addition to being part of a worldwide conspiracy to jeopardize children and screw around with your thoughts.

This is more of your surgeon bashing because you don't like that many disagree with your emotion-driven lay assessment of bracing efficacy.

[Ballet Mom]

I rest my case.

Love,
The Woldwide Anti-Bracing Conspiracy

Why are there so many doctors who feel that bracing does work? Hmmmm? You never ponder that, do you?

How do you explain my daughter's success? Hmmm? I'm waiting.

How is it okay that you make the decision for other families in the decision to brace or not? Ever ponder why you want to control other people? Can we make a diagnosis for that? I'm sure we could.

[Ballet Mom]

If they believed it worked then they wouldn't think it was ethical to randomize HALF(!) the kids into an observation group. Further research is UNETHICAL if they thought it worked and you know it. Unless you are claiming they are unethical in addition to being part of a worldwide conspiracy to jeopardize children and screw around with your thoughts.

This is more of your surgeon bashing because you don't like that many disagree with your emotion-driven lay assessment of bracing efficacy.

No no, remember? The Iowa doc told them all it was ethical because there was a mixture of thought. What's to question?