Dr. Woggon - Clear Institute treatment

[Sherie]

joyfull

Ditto on everything you said. My dd did Clear the year before her surgery. Not only did it not help, but she continued to progress even while doing the prescribed exercise and traction chair. I too spent about the same amount as you. What I hope for now is that someone else considering Clear will read these posts and learn from our experiences.

[joyfull]

Clear

I spent two weeks at clear in 2007. I was 55 then. My thoracic curve was about 80 degrees. The program was intense and Dr. Woggon's adjustments are painful. I was given exercises that I needed to do twice a day, which took over half an hour.

After two weeks of machines, adjustments, Ekhart table therapy with 20 pound weights on the rib hump, my scoliosis measured 63 degrees, according to Dr. Woggon's measurements. Dr. Woggon declared it almost miraculous.

Dr. Woggon pays lots of attention to restoring the natural curves in the neck and lower back, and NO attention to the torso muscles. I was told to sleep on my back with a roll under my head and one under my lower back. When I expressed concern that the torso muscles were "giving way," I was told not to worry about it.

It is hard for me to write these things, since I believe that some people have been helped there and I believe that Dr. Woggons is sincere, but I felt that the treatment made my back worse and hastened the progression. I have been told my several people that my scoliosis is more noticeable now. My torso has rotated more and the hump is more out to the right side. I feel as though my torso muscles have "given up" and that my spine is collapsing. The latest measurement of my thoracic curve by Dr. Lonner on Monday was 85 degrees.

I have been told that Clear has modified its exercise program. I purchased the vibrating chair for $3,000 which I was supposed to be using twice a day. It was a huge commitment of time and money and I began to have doubts about its efficacy for my degree of curvature. Plus, continuing with a local Clear trained chiropractor was quite expensive, with no end in sight. In fact, the new chiropractor wanted me to start all over with him and commit to a plan of treatment for something like $5,000.

I am now excited about starting Pilates which I believe would have benefited me more than Clear, since it strengthens the torso.

I can't help feeling somehow that it must have been me, but I know that I was committed to the program, and that I had doubts about the method as I was undergoing it.

The entire experience at Clear, treatment, airfare, renting a car and hotel cost me $10,000.

I am planning on having surgery in June and feel very good about the decision. I have been avoiding surgery all my life because I had no pain, but now I can feel rapid changes and my breathing is 50% of what it should be.

This forum has been a Godsend. Thank you all for you generosity in sharing your experiences. All the best, Joy

[joannemadden]

I just got a reply from Dr. Woggon of the Clear Institute saying he could fix my curve in 1-2 weeks in Minnisota 30%-50%. Does anyone know anything about this doctor or Clear Institute? The treatment is rather expensive and seems very brief for the amount they claim they can fix.

It doesn't work. Don't waste your money. Short term results.

[Pooka1]

I personally know of several CLEAR clients with substantial curve reductions but could you call them "long term" .....

NO, since, most started therapy within the last year or two ..... their results will not be considered "long term" for several years yet.

That is why I keep saying let's " wait and see" since that is all that can be done when the majority of their cases are so new and recent.

What about the kids who started several years ago? Have their curves been reduced permanently?

If that were the case Clear would have documented it.

How long has Clear been around?

[hope404]

verified long term reduction

I personally know of several CLEAR clients with substantial curve reductions but could you call them "long term" .....

NO, since, most started therapy within the last year or two ..... their results will not be considered "long term" for several years yet.

That is why I keep saying let's " wait and see" since that is all that can be done when the majority of their cases are so new and recent.

[LindaRacine]

unfortunately...

when people are helped and happy they aren't usually posting on scoliosis chat sites that are mainly designed to encourage and help. They do not need encouragement or help...

the only ones who would likely post would be the failed cases ....

Hope..

Well, I think that's somewhat true, but we've never found a single person who has had verified long term reduction of their structural scoliosis curves. One would think that one would have come forward by now, or there would have been a published account.

--Linda

[hope404]

unfortunately...

unfortunately...

when people are helped and happy they aren't usually posting on scoliosis chat sites that are mainly designed to encourage and help. They do not need encouragement or help...

the only ones who would likely post would be the failed cases ....

[Bish]

Re: Proof? of woggons treatment success

I am not even asking for a STUDY to suggest evidence that this program has success. All of these hundreds of success stories makes me wonder, is there not at least one single patient who went through the program and had there curve reduction VERIFIED by an outside source? Not a chiro or clear institute staff member but a certified radiologist, say that works at a major hospital. My bet is that there is not one single patient who went through the program that can have this verified. If this is the case, doesn't this concern anyone?
Thats my thoughts. Bish

[Lorraine 1966]

Thankyou Linda, totally agree. Just wondering Rosemarie if you were worried about your age when you stated that you could not be operated on. There have been a number of people on this forum who have been operated on successfully and have been older than you, just wanted to let you know,.

Lorraine

[LindaRacine]

Scoliosis is correctable in early and late stages; however, amount of correction, obviously, depends on the severity of the scoliosis and the age at which corrective procedures and exercises are begun. Skillful massage therapists can work wonders with the health of the muscles surrounding the spine...to relax those contracting, painful muscles. All scoliosis sufferers can benefit from a regimen of systematic isometric exercises, specific chiropractic adjustments and traction therapies, regular massages by a trained massage therapist...and a lifestyle that includes all of the other things that promote good health--not overlooking the importance of belief that the spine will strengthen, heal, and straighten as such a lifestyle is practiced.

Rosemarie...

When you have published proof of this, please post it. Until then, I'll request that you limit your posts to only your own experience.

--Linda

[Pooka1]

Appropriate evidence is available at the CLEAR CLINICS throughout the US. I hope this has been helpful.

Writer, you've met your match, I believe ... ;-)

I assume txmarinemom won the post of the month competition at that time for this post. If not it certainly should have.

It's interesting what constitutes "evidence" for some folks.

[Rosemarie]

My 55, oops, 56 year old scoliosis

Hello BigBlueFrog,

Based on understanding about the spine that I have learned (having cared for my scoliosis for 55 years), I will try to answer your questions.

You asked...is it the neck or the pelvis...because in dd situation we can see both out of alignment.

Answer: There are three normal curves in the spine. When the cervical curve (neck area curve) is not normally curved so as to balance the head on the spine, the other two spinal curves are "knocked" out of alignment. This usually throws out the alignment of the pelvis, as well.

You asked about the differences between use of isometric and isotonic exercises...

Isometric Exercises -- Def. A system of exercises using muscular contractions [I][I]against resistance in which the length of the muscles remains the same. Isometric exercises are used to strengthen and tone muscles, including the core muscles in the body. Example: Place hands together in front of your chest and push against each hand. Feel the force of the contraction as it strengthens the muscles in your arms, shoulders, and chest.

Isotonic Exercises --Def. A system of exercises using muscular contractions in which the muscle stays under relatively constant tension while changing length. Example: Lie on floor face down. Place palms on floor beside your body. Push your body up by raising your arms. (commonly referred to as "push-ups")

You asked...

what is scoliosis...is the spine fixed? Due to tight muscles, or bone deformity, uneven growth, or we really don't know what causes it

Answer:

Scoliosis: Def. Abnormal curvature of the spine.

The spine is not fixed. If it were, we wouldn't lose height as we grow older, or we wouldn't hump over as we age, or the spine could not be knocked out of alignment (as in a car accident or sports injury)...and then repaired with proper alignment. Muscle strength, bone deformity, uneven growth all do effect the health and alignment of the spine. Scoliosis seems directly related to the health and alignment of the newborn spine.

You asked...

Is it correctable in early stages with exercise? correcting imbalances of muscles and posture? Or is it what it is...and some improve others don't and its just a selected your scoliosis may vary kinda deal

Answer:

Scoliosis is correctable in early and late stages; however, amount of correction, obviously, depends on the severity of the scoliosis and the age at which corrective procedures and exercises are begun. Skillful massage therapists can work wonders with the health of the muscles surrounding the spine...to relax those contracting, painful muscles. All scoliosis sufferers can benefit from a regimen of systematic isometric exercises, specific chiropractic adjustments and traction therapies, regular massages by a trained massage therapist...and a lifestyle that includes all of the other things that promote good health--not overlooking the importance of belief that the spine will strengthen, heal, and straighten as such a lifestyle is practiced.

I hope I've been helpful to you. Keep looking for answers, Bigbluefrog...You will find them. But if you have scoliosis, find a CLEAR CLINIC near you and get started getting well.

Best to you and good health,
Rosemarie

[Bigbluefrog]

You wrote....
QUESTION: The exercises are also ISOMETRIC rather than ISOTONIC. (Core muscles respond to isometric exercises.)

What is isometic exercise...can you give an example? Vs isotonic? please explain

Woggon writes in one of his little papers that he conceives of scoliosis, and its treatment, as beginning in the cervical region.
The major "righting reflex" to gravity is located in the head and neck.
The Schroth hypothesis, and treatment, are the opposite. The pelvis is misaligned, due often to problems in feet and legs. If all these are not addressed, the treatment is unlikely to be very effective for long since the pelvis is the foundation to which the spine is indirectly attached.
ANSWER: The pelvis is addressed with exercises, adjustments, blocking, and a sacral belt. The pelvis is not the foundation. If it were, we couldn't walk on uneven ground.
Appropriate evidence is available at the CLEAR CLINICS throughout the US. I hope this has been helpful.

So what does it all mean? I am still very new to all this...is it the neck or the pelvis...because in dd situation we can see both out of alignment.

When I think of the spine..it is a very dynamic organ...it moves, twists, bends, with the person. I believe the muscles and posture do have impact on the spine. Although...just a thought what is scoliosis...is the spine fixed? Due to tight muscles, or bone deformity, uneven growth, or we really don't know what causes it

When I give my dd a back massage, I can feel tight areas and areas of weakness..this is something tangible and concrete because I can feel it myself.
Is it correctable in early stages with exercise? correcting imbalances of muscles and posture? Or is it what it is...and some improve others don't and its just a selected your scoliosis may vary kinda deal YSMV

[Bigbluefrog]

Professor,

I One morning I came in and I said that my back hurt after I slept on my stomach. He told me not to sleep on my stomach. That seemed to help also. All I can say is that to date, my pain has improved, and my latest x-rays have improved. The improvement is noticeable when looking at the before and after x-rays. I don’t know if it will last, but I’m hopeful. It probably doesn’t work for everyone since we are all different. My chiropractor said to hope for continued gradual improvement of a few degrees over the next few months and that such an improvement is a little unusual for 6 weeks.

So you found a chiro with clearwater techniques in your area?

My daughter loves to sleep on her stomach...after her dx of scoloisis I rec laying on her back...and for first 30 minutes she has to lay on a rolled towel to correct her neck position...then she has a pillow under her knees....A PT rec right side sleeping too...I have no idea why...seems to help her back and pain level.

[txmarinemom]

Appropriate evidence is available at the CLEAR CLINICS throughout the US. I hope this has been helpful.

Writer, you've met your match, I believe ... ;-)