Dr. Woggon - Clear Institute treatment

[The Professor]

And there are other discussions about Schroth, just search forum.
But if you have any specific questions… we went to Schorth clinic (Germany) in February this year.

From what little I've read on the subject, the Schroth method involves traction combined with exercises to strenthen the back and abdominal muscles, which is supposed to "hold" the correction achieved through traction, correct?

Do they make any claims as to whether or not this is effective in adult patients?

[LATigner]

Schroth in USA

If you search on Schroth on the forum there should be posts about a Schroth clinic that opened this year in the US - I think it was Minnesota or Wisconsin.

[tmom]

about Schroth

Somebody already posted this reference somewhere:
http://www.erikamaude.com/article.pdf

There are some more:
http://www.sosort.org/documents/tpdr100218.pdf

There are pretty good books, but unfortunately only in German.

And there are other discussions about Schroth, just search forum.
But if you have any specific questions… we went to Schorth clinic (Germany) in February this year.

[markymark]

I’ve never heard of the Schroth method until now. Information on the Clear Institute can be found at www.clear-institute.com which I’m sure you already know. I couldn’t find any detailed information on the Schroth method. Is there a good web site for it? The clear institute and ASCO claims rely some on vibration. Not sure if that is different from Schroth.

[The Professor]

How similar is the clear institute method to the Schroth method?

[markymark]

Professor,

I understand your skepticism. I learned of the treatment from reading the post by denverbackchic. I went to several chiropractors over the years with no success. I wasn’t really looking to correct the curve since it really isn’t that bad; I was hoping to get rid of the pain. There was one Osteopathic doctor that seamed to temporarily help my pain a little but it would just come right back. I’ve spent thousands on back care. I have two inversion tables (one is just from the waist down) that do give me temporary relief. I have yoga dvds and books. Most of it is out of desperation which leads a lot of us to anyone who has a plan.

I’ve done the x-rays that you lean side to side. My curves do improve when I lean or bend forward. I’ve also been x-rayed with weights. My curves improved with the weights also. I think that was one of the ways that my chiropractor determined if the treatment would help. He was right. My curves improved after 6 weeks of exercises and adjustments. One morning I came in and I said that my back hurt after I slept on my stomach. He told me not to sleep on my stomach. That seemed to help also. All I can say is that to date, my pain has improved, and my latest x-rays have improved. The improvement is noticeable when looking at the before and after x-rays. I don’t know if it will last, but I’m hopeful. It probably doesn’t work for everyone since we are all different. My chiropractor said to hope for continued gradual improvement of a few degrees over the next few months and that such an improvement is a little unusual for 6 weeks. My visits have also reduced from three times a week to twice a week.

Good luck to you and to everyone! I’ll keep posting my results.

[The Professor]

I was impressed by the theory and was shown before/after x-rays of results. I was also x-rayed. I have a typical S-curve (not sure the degrees), my head thrusts forward and my neck does not curve normally. I was x-rayed with weights on my head. The weights forced my head into a normal position to compensate for the weight, and the x-ray showed that they caused my head to sit back and my neck to curve normally.

I'm still unconvinced that chiropractic treatment gives any more than minor, temporary correction. A chiro tried all the head-weighting and shoulder weighting treatments on me, even had me don the weights (heaviest he had) and took another spinal x-ray to see how much correction he thought was possible.

Total correction possible, according to the x-rays? 0 and 0 degrees.

[markymark]

Its working for me

I just got a reply from Dr. Woggon of the Clear Institute saying he could fix my curve in 1-2 weeks in Minnisota 30%-50%. Does anyone know anything about this doctor or Clear Institute? The treatment is rather expensive and seems very brief for the amount they claim they can fix.

I use a chiropractor from the Clear Institute in Virginia. My curves have corrected from 17/18 upper/lower to 10/14. Not in 1-2 weeks though. It was about 6 weeks. Don't know what to think about the 1-2 week promise but it's working for me.

[gerbo]

I will keep you posted of my results, and would like to hear from anyone who has undergone this treatment.

please do so,

why do you feel their method makes sense?

gerbo

[livingit]

re: Clear Institute Treatment

I just got a reply from Dr. Woggon of the Clear Institute saying he could fix my curve in 1-2 weeks in Minnisota 30%-50%. Does anyone know anything about this doctor or Clear Institute? The treatment is rather expensive and seems very brief for the amount they claim they can fix.

I was referred to Dr. Hersh of the Scoliosis Correction Center of N.E., by Dr. Woggon. The CLEAR method makes sense to me. I don't think they are promising magical long term results—the patient needs to keep up with excersises after the treatment ends. I was given an outline for a plan of therapy that would entail visits of 2- 3 times a week for the first 3 months,approx.), with 6 months of follow up (about once/mo.), along with 40 minutes of daily excercises. I asked about the 1 week to 2 week therapy that some people have claimed have given them such good results. Dr. Hersh said it was for people traveling a great distance, it is very intensive and they need to keep up the excersises.
I was impressed by the theory and was shown before/after x-rays of results. I was also x-rayed. I have a typical S-curve (not sure the degrees), my head thrusts forward and my neck does not curve normally. I was x-rayed with weights on my head. The weights forced my head into a normal position to compensate for the weight, and the x-ray showed that they caused my head to sit back and my neck to curve normally.
I plan to go ahead with the treatment if/when I can afford the time and money. I will keep you posted of my results, and would like to hear from anyone who has undergone this treatment.

[Karen Ocker]

What are you a professor of????

[The Professor]

so, how do you think inequal musclestrength drive the spine into a curve and what could one do to address this??

Nobody's really sure whether asymmetrical musculature can cause spinal deformity, or if it's a secondary effect of whatever's driving the curvature.

Once the curve is set in place (especially in an adult), your musculature has developed more or less to compensate for the curvature in your posture. We all know about those little "postural adaptations" we all have that are unique. Those muscular adaptations will likely want to "fight" any correction made by physical manipulation to the spine and pull the spine back into the scoliotic curvature. But, as body building can develop your biceps, I'm sure that the back and spinal muscles can be "retrained" with enough effort, but this is something that would have to be done constantly.

[katblack]

Professor,
Thank you very much for answering my question. I have a better understanding of this now.

[gerbo]

until the forces that drive the spine into that shape (wedged vertebrae, unequal muscle strength, etc.) are addressed, any correction that's seen will revert back to the original state.

so, how do you think inequal musclestrength drive the spine into a curve and what could one do to address this??

[The Professor]

bone growth

I've never heard of the "asymmetrical loading" being reversed. When one's vertebrae are wedge shaped, nature isn't going to reshape them.

--Linda

Actually, bone is constantly being remodeled. For instance, people who do repetitive motions day in and day out (manual labor or bodybuilding) will undergo bone growth at the attachment points for the muscles that are being developed in tandem with the repetitive movement. A larger muscle needs a larger insertion to pull on. Granted, the growth will be nowhere near as substantial as you would see in someone who's not yet reached skeletal maturity, but there is some remodeling and reshaping of bone that does occur, just as it does occur when a bone is broken and reset.

I don't think this force would be substantial enough to reshape a wedged vertebra, though. My point from the earlier post is that while physical manipulation may temporarily "correct" the curvature, until the forces that drive the spine into that shape (wedged vertebrae, unequal muscle strength, etc.) are addressed, any correction that's seen will revert back to the original state.