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  • #16
    I think there is evidence PT helps with pain.

    I don't think there is evidence that Schroth is better for pain than other PT modalities. I don't see how the cost can possibly be justified.

    Schroth was invented by a lay person to straighten curves. Her grandson, an orthopedic surgeon, tried for many years and with tens of thousands of patients to prove it works for straightening curves or even slowing curve progression. He failed. He now only uses braces for teens. He may still push Schroth for pain.

    There may be some pubs on Schroth for pain but these studies are notoriously hard to do correctly and I would take them with a grain of salt. He the grandson orthopedic surgeon) has had to retract at least one paper on some aspect of Schroth, not necessarily pain.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 06-25-2021, 09:57 AM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine

    "We are all African."


    • #17
      Originally posted by Pooka1 View Post
      I think there is evidence PT helps with pain.
      I agree, but it has to be the correct therapy for each problem....

      You can also have a great surgeon with fantastic surgical skills and have the wrong plan....You can have someone say I know of a great heart surgeon, oh and BTW, it took 8 procedures to get it right....(My neighbor!) Scoliosis surgeons don't have it that lucky and it's just not fair. For PT to work at its best, it really needs to be targeted and assisted at or by a scoliosis center.

      I have had both success and failure with regard to herniated discs. Sometimes traction works, and sometimes it does not. Herniated discs can be quite a battle. I had no success with Chiropractic adjustments as far as herniated discs are concerned. With 6 herniations, I sure did try. For the rest of the binding, stiffness problems, Chiro worked well. I went for all those years.....27 of them. Once again, when degeneration or radiculopathy sets in in adulthood, it gets harder to have results that last any amount of time. I was doing Chiro or hot soaks/massage every 2-3 days in 2007 right before my surgeries. It was expensive, no doubt. I figure $100K on massage alone. I used Celebrex and Diclofenac for disc herniations, also a Medrol pack for my neck. (And A/P scoliosis surgery for my lumbar discs) almost forgot that one....I keep forgetting I am fused. I know, nobody believes me, but it's true. I have adapted....

      What can be done with a pre-degenerative 33 year old with a painful 25T curve? This is a tough one. Back when I was that age, I had the aches and the binding and it all started with my GF walking on my back and that's how I started with Chiropractic. It was fast relief without meds. I was not going to take opioid's at work. There were no PT people at that time. The PT that did my shoulder was afraid of me....It's not easy finding the right therapists.

      Schroth is going to be expensive no doubt, but then any other non-surgical option is going to be expensive also....From a cost analysis standpoint, it's hard to figure since insurance companies have to lay out a huge chunk of money on scoliosis surgery that could be invested making 20% or more. Time and money go hand in hand...Scoliosis surgery on adults after age 50 can also get involved and be very expensive. When a patient is in serious pain,(from a patient standpoint) cost doesn't matter. It's important for anyone having ANY serious surgeries to have really good insurance....If you think you will need surgery, bump up your policy before. This is extremely important. I bought the best insurance I could find.

      As far as evidence on pain, I agree on the difficulties since pain is so subjective, it also can fluctuate quite a bit. Pain is also reflective on what we do or did at any particular time. Pain is also hard to define, pain that Richard might have would be a cake walk for most of the heavy duty scoliosis adults around here. What he might think is a 9 level pain Jackie and Susan would call a 1 or a 2. I myself was questioned when I was writing down 3 pain levels when I was barely walking before my surgeries. My pain tolerance was that high....It was crazy waiting like that in so much pain. That's why I have said in the past that if anyone truly knows they will eventually need surgery, not to wait too long. I will lean Pro surgery IF someone needs it. High pain levels are your sign. Waiting when you are dying is not a good option. Things changed for me through my 40's. It was the beginning of the downhill slide. Age 40 is a critical age with scoliosis....For those waiting, go in and get evaluated by a scoliosis surgeon.

      I did not look at the Schroth material too close, you did that years ago. (smiley face) I do remember when Dr Weiss went to China to brace, and that is a lucrative business....Schroth is German. It wasn't talked about much years ago here in the US.

      I guess any of the Idiopathic scoliosis patients like me that did any alternatives over the years that eventually needed surgery are failed PT and or failed bracing patients...Things like this after a lifetime of trying are not strong interests, or at least with me, it all was a thing of the past that had to happen...Is it unavoidable? Probably not because scoliosis surgery is this scary thing we try to avoid....It's going to be easier as a teenager, and most adapt and forget. Adult surgical decisions are going to be harder....

      Besides all the physical pain, I would say it's helps for each patient to learn alt methods, and to learn exactly what works and how to deal with all of it. It helps with acceptance which is probably the most important thing. We can't change what happens to us on a physical level, and we can't change the root cause. It all plays a part in managing and understanding scoliosis. I think if anyone is going to have a full fusion done, wearing a full hard brace is worth it regardless of if it works or not. I already knew what full fusion was like before my surgeries.

      Even when you know, you still need members like Susan to drop that hint, so I will try my "topical" Diclofenac 1% tonight (first time) since my neck is causing problems again.....I can't do any strong physical work with my arms and hands anymore, it just transfers right to the thoracic and the neck. It's hard being Superman when kryptonite is around. Scoliosis can be a hard thing but I will say that the neck is serious business.

      This also was "delayed" pain. I have had this happen in the past where you know what you did, and then 10-20 days later, the pain hits. Not all pain happens right after a trigger. Slow to come, slow to go. Discs are funny this way. I remember the big ski jump that herniated my 4 lumbar discs...I hit really hard and landed too far forward. Dec 2001...I was 43. The sciatica hit about 3 weeks later with a vengeance.

      I had an electrostim machine 30 years ago and would try to build muscle on the concave side (weak side) of my lumbar curve. I would set that thing all the way up on ten and the muscle would contract some, but the muscle would not build. I put the electrodes on my bicep for kicks, and after a short while I was ready for the professional arm wrestling circuit. Soft tissues in scoliosis patients are a deep complex problem....The muscles that I had when I was skiing 4 days a week, were all rock hard, except the muscles that I needed to balance my spine in my back. How does one do scoliosis therapy with this happening? I don't think it's about building or targeting specific muscles, stretching and relaxing helped more. I do like a hot water soak.

      Another thing is controlling stress and anxiety....This is extremely important. Breathing or deep breathing is so important. I learned to breathe hard while skiing, and learned breathe slowly when scuba diving. I used breathing for my anxiety before my surgeries. Sometimes, I would sprint during the day at work.

      I have to do a post and video on the Pneuback system...If you want somebody walking and guarantee 100% that they won't fall, this is the cat's meow.

      49 yr old male, now 63, the new 64...
      Pre surgery curves T70,L70
      ALIF/PSA T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
      Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

      Bending and twisting pics after full fusion

      My x-rays