Attacking the President & CEO

[LindaRacine]

I'm closing this thread. And, I will continue to close threads as you hijack them. Mamamax, you seem to thrive on drama. Get over it. And, Sharon, the next time you find Mamamax getting off track, simply report the post(s) and I'll either delete them and/or close the thread. We're all getting a little sick of it.

[Pooka1]

while other words are forbidden - unless you use them of course

This forum is about a SERIOUS MEDICAL ISSUE. If you think scientific research isn't going to provide the solution then you should try that faith healing site.

[Pooka1]

The grown woman isn't me - so I can't really speak for her. But, I can say this - I didn't see any fear in her comment ... I noted, that she noted the word may be used liberally while other words are forbidden - unless you use them of course

Why would she care if the word was used liberally or not if she didn't fear blasphemy? I don't fear the word because I think blasphemy is a victimless crime. She obviously disagrees and is afraid because of it.

This is how beliefs affect actions.

[mamamax]

We have a grown woman afraid of the word "damn." How likely is it that she can go on to discuss things logically and honestly?

The grown woman isn't me - so I can't really speak for her. But, I can say this - I didn't see any fear in her comment ... I noted, that she noted the word may be used liberally while other words are forbidden - unless you use them of course

[Pooka1]

We have a grown woman afraid of the word "damn." How likely is it that she can go on to discuss things logically and honestly?

[mamamax]

In the past few days we have seen people afraid of mere individual words if you can believe it.

I don't think people are afraid of words. I think they tire of controversy in an area that is supposed to be safe for them to discuss non surgical methods without humiliation.

What is being discussed are mere ideas. No idea should be walled off from criticism. Open-ended conversation is the only way to learn anything and advance. Dogma is the way to war because no criticism or discussion is permitted and that is all that can remain if conversation ceases.

Humiliation is not open minded discussion - quite the opposite.

Don't be afraid of words or ideas. Be honest.

Good advice. You may be preaching to the choir. Many who participated in this thread were quite honest - and none of them afraid of words or ideas. And many of them no longer post - because, opened ended conversation free of humiliation was (and often is) futile in the non surgical forum.

[Pooka1]

In the past few days we have seen people afraid of mere individual words if you can believe it.

What is being discussed are mere ideas. No idea should be walled off from criticism. Open-ended conversation is the only way to learn anything and advance. Dogma is the way to war because no criticism or discussion is permitted and that is all that can remain if conversation ceases.

Don't be afraid of words or ideas. Be honest.

[mamamax]

posts by pooka1:

"He seems to be a man of faith, not evidence. … Faith in conservative treatments as against evidence for non-fusion (and possibly fusion) surgery. … I suggest that is no way to approach a serious medical issue (if that is indeed his approach)." Post #241

"I was right. He's a man of faith, not evidence. … He's a man of faith AS AGAINST evidence. … Science is a way of knowing. Faith is a way of pretending to know." Post #250

"What isn't ridiculous to suggest is that what gets linked to is simply where O'Brien's hopes and interests lie, as opposed to where the evidence leads. His site, his prerogative I suppose but that is not really being true to what facts are or are not out there." Post #256
++++++++++++++++++++++

In the thread "Setting the Record Straight", which NSF President and CEO Joe O’Brien started as a response to accusations against him on this board, the President outlined the purposes of this forum.

Item 10: "this Forum is intended to be a community center to give all patients and families an opportunity to give and receive vital information and support."

and -- "we need open communication for all in an environment that shows courtesy and respect for, and by, everyone."

Item 11: "Anyone unwilling or unable to abide by the spirit of item #10 is kindly asked to leave the Forum and find another venue to satisfy your needs."

Bizarrely, that very thread has been hijacked and has degenerated into a vehicle for yet more accusations against Joe. Most recently in the form of pooka's "Faith versus evidence" campaign, an insult to the intellect and character of the President.

I invite readers unfamiliar with Joe O’Brien’s deep and broad background in all kinds of scoliosis treatment, and his personal familiarity with the top practitioners worldwide, surgical and conservative, to read post #1 in the thread "Setting the Record Straight." He almost certainly knows more about more kinds of scoliosis treatment than *anybody* on this board.

The proposition that he is promoting or discouraging any kind of treatment out of ignorance or blind faith is preposterous.

Q: Why doesn't he chime in and defend himself? Answer: I'm sure that the organization’s president has more important demands on his time than to constantly comment on petty accusations and get involved in squabbles of the nature that have become all-too-common here. I would expect a moderator to do the defense for him and clamp down on the offenders.

Linda, I request -- again -- that you control the very few people who are consistently out of control, disrupting discussions and alienating many participants with sarcastic or wild remarks, taking over threads, including now the President’s thread, and casting aspersions upon the President himself.

The NSF Forum deteriorated noticeably after the appearance of tx and pooka around the beginning of 2008. You appear mostly to side with them, and never attempt to tone them down, in my observation. No thread in the Non-Surgical area is safe from their abrasive pontifications – yet they are not even interested in non-surgical treatments except insistently to disparage them. Now pooka is essentially attacking the President, as if she understands better than he how to manage the NSF.

Only the moderator can maintain the environment that Joe has defined. The rest of us are hostages. Please enforce the principles that Joe defined above. Thank you.

This was a great thread Writer ... it address issues which continue to this day. I miss you here - and many others in this thread who no longer post for the reasons stated.

[Lorraine 1966]

I just read the posts regarding your independence day, and part of one line by Ballet Mom caught my eye. "Lest we forget"
We here in Australia also have a day we call Anzac Day which is in April and those words every year since World war 1, have been uttered in reference to our day of thanks to our soldiers who died for us, for peace and democracy.
I cant help but think that all the way here, we are and you over there how alike we really are, and how absolutely wonderful that those words, signify both our thoughts on two of our very special days.

I really feel it brings us all together and has really touched me, Happy Independence Day to you all.

Lorraine.

[mamamax]

To you as well! And a belated Happy 1st of July! (Canada Day, I am Canadian after all, even if I am currently living in the US )



There is a way to deal with it and that is to report it to Linda, and if you do not feel she is doing the job then PM Joe and ask him to step in. Starting up a thread to directly attack those Writer disagrees with only makes the problem worse, not better. Lines are now drawn in teh sand and the bickering is getting worse, not better.



Who is doing the disrespect? Sharon for wanting proof of proceedure's validity, or Writer for calling people who dare ask such questions 'brownshirts' (Nazis)? Look at it from both sides equally.



Joe is an adult, and if I am not mistaken he was answering those charges himself. He doesn't need others to speak for him. This thread was nothing more than [i]another[i] attemp by Writer to get rid of people he has disagreed with for years. All he is doing now is trying to get others to help him stage a revolt.
And no I would not speak out about something like that. At best I would have reported it to Linda, and then Joe if needed. Joe does not need my help to defend himself.
Plus, some peole are just not going to believe anything put to them, and its no sense starting more and more arguements with them about it. If Sharon and Pam want to believe whatever they want to about Joe, true or not, how does that effect me? It doesn't. I'll let Joe address those issues and I'll just go about my own business in encouraging other people in their struggles and asking questions as I feel the need to.



If a surgeon, or people pushing surgery, came into the surgical section and said that surgery is needed for every scoliosis patient you can guarentee that there would be debate on that subject.
The problem on the alternative treatments is that there seems to be no long term studies done. That leaves a lot of questions about the validity of some of it. However I have yet to see anyone discourage trying it and if it helps then great. The only question has been about the long term effects and will it stand up to time?
Look at my preop xray in my sig lines and tell me if alternative treatments would have helped me. I had a chiropracter say he could have fixed me, and that I would not have needed surgery at all. Its that kind of stuff we have to watch out for as it is very dangerous, I am sure you can see that. Its the same thing with other forms of alternative treatments, some people have made wild claims and we do need to keep an eye on that so that people don't get mislead into false hopes. (in both surgery and alt treatments)



Fair and equitable treatment goes both ways, and those on Writers side need to show the same respect back. But as I have said earlier Writer has been guilty of personal attacks and that shows he has no respect either. Which is why there is the hypocracy in what he says he wants now. If you want fairness you don't start threads attacking other posters. If someone is disrespecful to you, stay respectful back, its that easy.
Remember just because someone disagrees with something doesn't mean its disrespect. If so I guess we are all guilty.



I agree, but Linda and Joe are the ones to handle it.



You too! I'm staying home with my dogs cause they get scared by fireworks. My mother-in-law is taking a grandson to a bbq then fireworks.

Well we disagree on the Writer (and perhaps a few other things). I do have enormous respect for Writer and both understand and admire what it is that he hopes to accomplish. But you see how we (you and me) disagree QD? Politely. That is the way ;-) And for what it may be worth, I think clearing the air may have been a very good thing - for everyone. Thank you.

[Ballet Mom]

A truly huge sacrifice for these Founding Fathers. A sacrifice not to be taken lightly.

Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.

It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become a prey to the active. The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt.—John Philpot Curran

Best to all!

[mamamax]

4th of July :-)

Happy Independence Day to you too, Mamamax

Lest we forget, we are the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Excerpts from the Declaration of Independence:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

“And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.”

John Hancock, et al.
July 4, 1776

Thanks Ballet Mom! Some may enjoy this too:

Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence?

Five signers were captured by the British as traitors, and tortured before they died.

Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned. Two lost their sons serving in the Revolutionary Army; another had two sons captured.

Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or hardships of the Revolutionary War.

They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor.

What kind of men were they?

Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists. Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners; men of means, well educated, but they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were captured.

Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and trader, saw his ships swept from the seas by the British Navy. He sold his home and properties to pay his debts, and died in rags.

Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British that he was forced to move his family almost constantly. He served in the Congress without pay, and his family was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him, and poverty was his reward.

Vandals or soldiers looted the properties of Dillery, Hall, Clymer, Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge, and Middleton.

At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson, Jr., noted that the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson home for his headquarters. He quietly urged General George Washington to open fire. The home was destroyed,
and Nelson died bankrupt.

Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few months.

John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying. Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his gristmill were laid to waste. For more than a year he lived in forests and caves, returning home to find his wife dead and his children vanished.

What price Freedom (anywhere) eh? I have not checked out the accuracy of all this - was sent to me by a reliable source .. maybe our history buffs can let us know.

[LindaRacine]

Thanks for the support Brad. I've always known you were a stand up guy, but staying home with the scared dog proves it unequivocally. Happy 4th.

--Linda

[Ballet Mom]

Happy 4th of July Everyone :-)

Happy Independence Day to you too, Mamamax

Lest we forget, we are the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Excerpts from the Declaration of Independence:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

“And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.”

John Hancock, et al.
July 4, 1776

[mamamax]

Happy 4th of July Everyone :-)