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  • i'm reneging

    i'm now 3 wks postop; all of the pain i had preop is gone; i can stand up straight which i hadn't been able to do for a very long time; my postop xrays show me straight as an arrow; Dr Lenke was pleased and said it was a very good sign that all my preop symptoms were immediately gone

    i promised a detailed account of my hospital stay and that i just haven't been able to do because i don't know how to do it in a way that will be helpful to anyone not yet on "the other side."

    when i was a medical student, a wise old mentor told me something to this effect: "Don't forget your role as a doctor is not just as a doctor. You are also The Witness. Everyone's illness is individual, intensely personal and a major drama in their lives that you travel along with them."

    In very broad terms, i was in the hospital for 8 days after which i went directly home. I had no major complications. I feel very fortunate when i consider that for 8 1/2 hrs my spine (of all the ailing spines in the world) had the undivided attention of one of a very small group of men who could be considered the world's best spine surgeons (Dr Lenke). I was treated at Barnes/Jewish Hospital in St. Louis, one of the finest hospitals in the world. I was treated with the utmost kindness by everyone from Dr Lenke to the little lady who brought my meal trays and had such a sweet smile for me each time. But there is pain involved. Dr Lenke and Kelly had in no way downplayed the difficulty i was to face but pain simply can't be imagined until you are there and i wish i could say i handled it better than i did. The first night there were problems with the PCA pump and i had the longest night of my life; i don't think they ever really caught up completely with the pain. I walked the very next day, forced myself to eat and had a BM and almost made discharge by day 5, but i felt very tense and SO wanted to go home. But on the evening before the planned discharge, i basically took a "mental vacation" or however you want to put it. I think it was due to some combination of severe sleep deprivation, pain never completely relieved and/or possibly a drug reaction. I don't think i ever slept more that 20 minutes continuously the first 4 days. I remember having an internal discussion of what exactly was the difference between a dream and a hallucination because i was clearly having both; I had to be put in restraints to keep me from pulling on my lines. (My wife, my daughter, friends and private nurses i had arranged kept detailed notes as much of this, of course, i have no memory of). I was, at least, they told me, witty at times. One nurse, trying to make conversation asked: "I hear you really like to read. What do you like to read most?" I apparently answered "High end porn." When i was tied down with restraints over my hands almost like gloves and one of the fellows asked "What's going on?" i held my hands up as high as the restraints would allow and said: "It's the Thrilla in Manilla." I regained my senses on the 7th day. I remember waking up feeling, for the first time, that i had had some meaningful rest and that some time had passed. I asked what day it was and realized i had lost 2 days.

    So that way MY particular drama. Each of us will have our own and each will be different. The one part that turned out much easier than anticipated was the PT and OT. After having had a very bad first night, the next day a young man named Mark came and said he was going to help me sit up, stand up and hopefully take some steps. After the pain i had already experienced simply laying there, i was very scared and quite skeptical. Any more pain and i feared i would pass out. But i went along, remembering that Kelly had told me that the fastest route to going home was to get moving. With his careful instruction, i was able to do all those things, including walking around the bed without really hardly any additional discomfort. This was a great relief.

    I surprised myself also with how emotionally labile i was in the hospital. It would almost or actually bring tears of appreciation to my eyes when trying to thank the many individuals who took part in my care in roles large and small. To be treated with such kindness when feeling so helpless was an unprecedented experience for me. I discovered a deep well of emotion in me that i never knew i had.

    those are the main points; i'd be glad to entertain any questions either open or private; as far as the parts that don't show me in a very flattering light, i'm willing to elaborate, if anyone cares, without shame. it is what it is (or was what it was); it's back to trying to focus on the positive, walking as much as possible, getting on with life; Oh, one more thing, after getting home i just watched TV and movies for a week; since then i've been able to read, do the crossword, use my brain, in other words
    junosand
    59 yo recently retired otolaryngologist (ENT surgeon)
    schedule oct 2010 for T11 - sacrum fusion, all posterior approach with pedicle screws, steels rods, revision decompression left L3-4, right L4-5 & L5-S1, transforaminal lumbar interbody fusion L3-4 L4-5 L5-S1
    with titanium cages
    Dr Lenke, WashU/Barnes/Jewish St. Louis

  • #2
    Thank you Junosand! It made powerful reading, and remembering.

    Your ?drug induced? "loss of mind" was quite humorous to read, and I hope you find it that way now, as well. I didn't have the sleep deprivation, since I slept off an on day and night, but I can imagine that sleep deprivation and the drugs would have an effect on your sensibilities! I've read of others who had similar experiences.

    The kindness shown is very much appreciated when you feel so helpless. I'd forgotten that emotional well of appreciation. Some of us occasionally experienced something bordering on neglect. That's another feeling altogether.

    You sound good. Your surgery at this early stage, seems to be a success, not just the correction. That's something to be excited about. Plenty to look forward to now!

    Great, as always, to hear your story.
    Surgery March 3, 2009 at almost 58, now 63.
    Dr. Askin, Brisbane, Australia
    T4-Pelvis, Posterior only
    Osteotomies and Laminectomies
    Was 68 degrees, now 22 and pain free

    Comment


    • #3
      Congrats on getting through the first few weeks and for being on the road to recovery.

      I too was taken back by how helpless I felt at times in the hospital and even immediately at home. It still makes me emotional when I think of how much people did for me both professionally and loved ones at home.

      On the flip side, as Jennifer mentioned, I also had a moment of brief neglect in the hospital which, being tired and on so many meds, made me extremely outraged. I was so angry that no one had come to give me my pain killers that I broke out into tears and was yelling at everyone. My husband had to run down the hall to get help because I was so uncomfortable and fuming that no one had remembered my meds. I was very lucky to otherwise have my pain pretty well managed. It's truly interesting, if nothing else, how we react when in those situations.

      Best of luck in your continued recovery. Your positive attitude and humor will help you AND others here on the forum.

      -Jamie

      Comment


      • #4
        WOW, that was fascinating, and I laughed out loud at your comments while on "mental vacation." I also hallucinated while on the Dilaudid pump but they were more along the lines of cartoons and most of them took place on the hospital-room drapes....better than TV and a lot quieter.

        Best wishes for an uneventful recovery!
        Chris
        A/P fusion on June 19, 2007 at age 52; T10-L5
        Pre-op thoracolumbar curve: 70 degrees
        Post-op curve: 12 degrees
        Dr. Boachie-adjei, HSS, New York

        Comment


        • #5
          Junosand,
          Thank you for you honesty. If everyone sugar coated his/her time in the hospital, it wouldn't prepare those of us waiting for what is ahead. Naturally, when heavily medicated, one can't be responsible for what is said. I had to chuckle over you response to what you like to read. Please continue to post throughout your recovery. It is of interest to all of us on this side and the other side. Keep up the good work with your recovery.
          Karen

          Surgery-Jan. 5, 2011-Dr. Lenke
          Fusion T-4-sacrum-2 cages/5 osteotomies
          70 degree thoracolumbar corrected to 25
          Rib Hump-GONE!
          Age-60 at the time of surgery
          Now 66
          Avid Golfer & Tap Dancer
          Retired Kdgn. Teacher

          See photobucket link for:
          Video of my 1st Day of Golf Post-Op-3/02/12-Bradenton, FL
          Before and After Picture of back 1/7/11
          tap dancing picture at 10 mos. post op 11/11/11-I'm the one on the right.
          http://s1119.photobucket.com/albums/k630/pottoff2/

          Comment


          • #6
            Junosand, thank you more than I can express for this very insightful, sensitive and honest account, which is so very helpful for those of us still on "this side" of surgery. Even though each of us will walk a very unique path of experience with our own surgeries, nothing provides a better window into our future than the stories of those who have been before.

            It is so heartening to hear how well you are progressing and I wish you the very best as you continue ahead.

            And it is particularly nice to hear from someone in your age group, because these procedures are the most daunting to those of us who are not young anymore and keep hearing that our recoveries will be so much more difficult. I truly believe that overall physical condition and mental attitude matter as much or more than chronological age. I was reminded of this recently when visiting my dermatologist, who stood before me looking his usual 50 year old but straight off the triathlon circuit physique. Then when I asked about caring for the scar I would have from back surgery, he casually mentioned that he'd just had open heart surgery to replace a valve just six weeks previously. I suspect that is much easier surgery than what we have to do, but still it was inspiring to me.
            Stephanie, age 56
            Diagnosed age 8
            Milwaukee brace 9 years, no further treatment, symptom free and clueless until my 40s that curves could progress.
            Thoracolumbar curve 39 degrees at age 17
            Now somewhere around 58 degrees thoracic, 70 degrees thoracolumbar
            Surgeon Dr. Michael S. O'Brien, Baylor's Southwest Scoliosis Center, Dallas TX
            Bilateral laminectomies at L3 to L4, L4 to L5 and L5 to S1 on April 4, 2012
            Foramenotomies L3 through S1 in August 2014

            Comment


            • #7
              Thrilla in Manila,

              Your recounting was way better than a "diary"- absolutely no reneging there!

              All in all, when we hear of perfectly reasonable, intelligent, grateful, positive people heading in for surgery and finding themselves in retrospect to be capable of mental vacations, or minor misconduct....well that just allows all of us to be human too, if that's what happens during our trip to the other side. You give us a permission slip to not feel guilty, in case our pain overwhelms us and we display the less than dainty sides of our personalities.

              Thanks!

              Keep posting- loved hearing from you...
              Amy
              58 yrs old, diagnosed at 31, never braced
              Measured T-64, L-65 in 2009
              Measured T-57, L-56 in 2010, different doc
              2 lumbar levels spondylolisthesis
              Exercising to correct

              Comment


              • #8
                Junosand--
                What a great rendition of post surgery--& at 3 weeks no less! There was no way I could have done that until much later. I could relate to most all of your reactions and those of subsequent posters too. I had one nurse from hell! You apparently didn't meet her in St. Louis. Dr. Lenke does do remarkable work. My strange mental vacations were described to me by my husband but I liked yours better. Let the healing continue! Janet
                Janet

                61 years old--57 for surgery

                Diagnosed in 1965 at age of 13--no brace
                Thoracic Curve: 96 degrees to 35 degrees
                Lumbar Curve: 63 degrees to 5 degrees
                Surgery with Dr. Lenke in St. Louis--March 30, 2009
                T-2 to Pelvis, and hopefully all posterior procedure.

                All was posterior along with 2 cages and 6 osteotomies.

                Comment


                • #9
                  So happy to hear that your pre-surgical pain is gone and that you are standing straight now. Hang in there. I do think that you will feel a renewal of energy at the 10 or 11 week point. I am not loving this cold weather though. Had to use that sock-putter-on device this morning for the first time...ugh
                  Kathy
                  46 yrs at surgery, now 50
                  71 degree thoracolumbar curve corrected to 34 degrees
                  8/2/2010 surgery with Dr. Lenke

                  posterior T9 to sacrum with pelvic fixation

                  4 osteotomies and 1 cage
                  http://s1066.photobucket.com/albums/...athK_08022010/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thank you for your report. As someone who is on this side of surgery, I appreciate your candor. No two experiences are alike, however, it helps to know a little of the time table and possiblities.

                    Wishing you a continued smooth recovery.

                    Irene

                    1996 x-rays (none read recently) 50 degrees thoracic, 40 degrees lumbar
                    multi-level disc spondylotic degeneration
                    advanced lumbar degeneration
                    stenosis
                    65 years young and very active
                    Surgery Dec. 7, 2010
                    T8-pelvis posterior
                    Dr. Rand
                    New England Baptist Hospital, Boston, MA

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Juno,
                      So glad to hear you are doing well after your surgery...your "memories" bring back my "memories", LOL of after my surgeries. I had to have my blackberry forcibly taken from me because I was sending nonsense emails to my friends and family! I also remember how I was very emotional the first time I got up out of bed and was able to stand up straight after my revision...I cried. Keep walking, sleeping and healing and pretty soon you will feel good as new ;-)))
                      May 2008 Fusion T4 - S1, Pre-op Curves T45, L70 (age 48). Unsuccessful surgery.

                      March 18, 2010 (age 50). Revision with L3 Osteotomy, Replacement of hardware T11 - S1 , addition of bilateral pelvic fixation. Correction of sagittal imbalance and kyphosis.

                      January 24, 2012 (age 52) Revision to repair pseudoarthrosis and 2 broken rods at L3/L4.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Darn, I missed out on the hallucinations and restraints! I think I slept the entire 6 days I was in the hospital, except for when they would get me up to walk and do PT and OT. And they always had me sitting on the edge of the bed for Dr Bridwell's 6:30am daily visits. But I never watched tv or read ; I just slept. I guess the drugs took care of everything. I had to stay in a hotel for a week then since I'm from Indy. But that went well and the weather was nice and there were lots of restaurants to walk to with my trusty walker. My husband would bring in breakfast and usually lunch and we would walk somewhere for dinner. It was nice getting out, but I must admit I don't have a lot of recollection of the week in the hotel. Some of my friends came over to visit to relieve my husband. They took me to my follow up appointment with Bernie a week after I was discharged from the hospital and I don't even remember going. Those are some powerful drugs they give you in the hospital! It is nice to now be off all drugs and clear headed! I agree that BJH is a very good hospital and I think as much of Bridwell as you do of Lenke.
                        Age 56
                        Wore a Milwaukee Brace for 3 years in hs
                        Fused L4-S1 for high grade spondylolisthesis Jan '09 in Indy
                        Thoracic 68
                        Surgery Aug 31, 2010 T3 to L1
                        Dr Bridwell St Louis
                        http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...1&d=1289881696

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          more thoughts

                          thanks so much for all your comments; they mean a lot to me; whatever goes less than optimally in our hospital course, there are forum members who step up to empathize and let you know you are not alone in your actions experiences or feelings

                          LisaB, your post hit me the hardest; i think i have stared at it for at least half an hour; my first reaction was intense jealousy; it seems you had an almost ideal pain control experience, what i had expected but went through a semi-hell instead

                          you then got to enjoy the beautiful "central west end" neighborhood around BJC with all the outdoor cafes, great restaurants, etc

                          your post is really the perfect counterweight to my own; for those trying to prepare and wondering "how bad is the pain going to be," between the two of us (and those of many others) the truth comes through: it varies

                          probably. in the distant future, when i've had time to absorb this whole experience, i will decide it was a good thing to have been humbled; my preop posts brim with confidence and positivity and they were genuine; i was as well prepared as i could have been and had arranged solid support from my great wife, private nurses who were also close personal friends, my daughter who is a pediatrician in practice in StL and other close friends; yet all this failed to ensure the smooth experience i was fairly sure i was going to have and it may be for my long range benefit

                          it reminds me of an analogous experience of my life: my wife and i have 3 children; the first 2 were good students, never gave us any serious trouble whatsoever and made child-rearing seem easy. No so our third. We tried everything and in the end had to send him to a near prison-camp like private school, very expensive, to get him away from the bad element he was hanging with and were inevitably going to lead him to prison or worse; all this is in the past now, he eventually matured and now is even the one i get along with the best (he has the best sense of humor); it has often occurred to me that had my wife and i stopped at 2 kids, i would i looked at others who had "problem children" and thought "they just don't know how to do it right, they're just not great parents like we are." HA !!! This is my bad tendency at times toward arrogance. So a perfect hospital course, instead of more accurately realizing the luck involved, i would have credited to my supremely astute knowledge and preparation. HA HA HA !!!!!

                          I'm no longer jealous, i'm just happy for you, LisaB, and wish we all could glide through; but at least, whatever doesn't go right, we have our collective experience and lessons learned to help each other through the dark moments
                          junosand
                          59 yo recently retired otolaryngologist (ENT surgeon)
                          schedule oct 2010 for T11 - sacrum fusion, all posterior approach with pedicle screws, steels rods, revision decompression left L3-4, right L4-5 & L5-S1, transforaminal lumbar interbody fusion L3-4 L4-5 L5-S1
                          with titanium cages
                          Dr Lenke, WashU/Barnes/Jewish St. Louis

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Excellent, valuable thread

                            This is an important thread for many reasons. Many wise posts.

                            Biochemistry is more complex that rocket science. It seems like the drug reactions and interactions are the reason for these wildly different recovery trajectories. Even my identical twins had different recovery trajectories despite having identical fusions in length of fused areas, length of surgery, etc. etc..

                            I think the optimal situation is close to LisaB's where you simply lose the time. I think my daughters both lost some time which is a very good thing. I was there and I would characterize the situation as harder than my daughters recount it but I'm not in their skin so I could be wrong.

                            Good luck, Junosand, and to all the other post-ops.
                            Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                            No island of sanity.

                            Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                            Answer: Medicine


                            "We are all African."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              "it reminds me of an analogous experience of my life: my wife and i have 3 children; the first 2 were good students, never gave us any serious trouble whatsoever and made child-rearing seem easy. No so our third. We tried everything and in the end had to send him to a near prison-camp like private school, very expensive, to get him away from the bad element he was hanging with and were inevitably going to lead him to prison or worse; all this is in the past now, he eventually matured and now is even the one i get along with the best (he has the best sense of humor); it has often occurred to me that had my wife and i stopped at 2 kids, i would i looked at others who had "problem children" and thought "they just don't know how to do it right, they're just not great parents like we are." HA !!! This is my bad tendency at times toward arrogance. So a perfect hospital course, instead of more accurately realizing the luck involved, i would have credited to my supremely astute knowledge and preparation. HA HA HA !!!!! "

                              My thoughts exactly.
                              Surgery March 3, 2009 at almost 58, now 63.
                              Dr. Askin, Brisbane, Australia
                              T4-Pelvis, Posterior only
                              Osteotomies and Laminectomies
                              Was 68 degrees, now 22 and pain free

                              Comment

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