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  • stretching forward from hips

    I'm over a year post op & doing great, zero back pain....was fused T10 to S1.
    I have 2 questions: My gait is slow now....don't seem able to get my legs
    to move fast??
    If I am sitting on the floor, on my butt, with my legs
    angled out, my body wants to lean backwards unless I grab my legs to keep
    myself erect. I seem to have no forward motion at all. Is it no longer possible to bend forwards as in many yoga poses??? I thought that would be hip movement & not waist/back forward bending?
    Anyone else out there experiencing anything similar?
    HappyDeanna
    65 years
    surgery 7/8/09
    Dr. Nitin Bahtia
    UCI Medical Center/Orange,CA
    back movement?

  • #2
    Deanna--
    My walking has definitely gotten faster the last several months. Almost back to my old speed. Had to "fly" through Minneapolis airport for a connecting flight a week ago--literally almost a mile and a half--and I was moving out, in flip-flops no less. Made it! I am about 1 1/2 years out so hopefully it will gradually improve for you too.
    The other problem--just got down on the floor to see if it had changed any since last I tried. I don't think so. It's exactly as you describe. That's why I'm so amazed at those who can do yoga. I just tip backwards too. Maybe that comes next year! Janet
    Janet

    61 years old--57 for surgery

    Diagnosed in 1965 at age of 13--no brace
    Thoracic Curve: 96 degrees to 35 degrees
    Lumbar Curve: 63 degrees to 5 degrees
    Surgery with Dr. Lenke in St. Louis--March 30, 2009
    T-2 to Pelvis, and hopefully all posterior procedure.

    All was posterior along with 2 cages and 6 osteotomies.

    Comment


    • #3
      Interesting to hear you two describe basically the same sitting balance problem even though your fusions are so different on top. Bottoms have ~ the same end points, though. Therefore, I assume that the starting point of thoracic fusions aren't "that" important in whether or not one can sit "solidly". Not too surprising but I wish we could make more such comparisons based on empirical knowledge. It would help greatly in decision making.

      As I describe in the "hop hip hooray" thread, I'm trying hard to compare point for point what is gained or lost by incremental differences in fusion length of the thorax. I find it's one relative black hole of information which I sure wish were filled empirically (to help understand trade-offs in the thoracic fusion length)

      Help from anyone would be greatly appreciated! Sadly, I guess it's almost impossible for an individual to "connect the dots" in answering this question, as each of us can only tell our own story .

      OTOH some surgeon (or even PT or otherwise-grounded researcher) could make a major contribution by organizing better available knowledge about what is gained/lost by various fusions in the thoracic vertebrae! Or has it already been done and I just haven't found it?
      Not all diagnosed (still having tests and consults) but so far:
      Ehler-Danlos (hyper-mobility) syndrome, 69 - somehow,
      main curve L Cobb 60, compensating T curve ~ 30
      Flat back, marked lumbar kyphosis (grade?) Spondilolisthesis - everyone gives this a different grade too. Cervical stenosis op'd 3-07, minimally invasive

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Back-out View Post
        Interesting to hear you two describe basically the same sitting balance problem even though your fusions are so different on top. Bottoms have ~ the same end points, though. Therefore, I assume that the starting point of thoracic fusions aren't "that" important in whether or not one can sit "solidly". Not too surprising but I wish we could make more such comparisons based on empirical knowledge. It would help greatly in decision making.

        As I describe in the "hop hip hooray" thread, I'm trying hard to compare point for point what is gained or lost by incremental differences in fusion length of the thorax. I find it's one relative black hole of information which I sure wish were filled empirically (to help understand trade-offs in the thoracic fusion length)

        Help from anyone would be greatly appreciated! Sadly, I guess it's almost impossible for an individual to "connect the dots" in answering this question, as each of us can only tell our own story .

        OTOH some surgeon (or even PT or otherwise-grounded researcher) could make a major contribution by organizing better available knowledge about what is gained/lost by various fusions in the thoracic vertebrae! Or has it already been done and I just haven't found it?
        To me the fact that its not that comfortable to sit on the floor with my legs extended is not a factor in my fusion experience. I can still sit anywhere, legs crossed Indian-style, stretched out, bent up, just about any way comfortable to me. Sure, there are minor things that are a little different after a fusion no matter how many levels you have done but you adapt and after awhile you don't even notice that you are doing things differently.
        May 2008 Fusion T4 - S1, Pre-op Curves T45, L70 (age 48). Unsuccessful surgery.

        March 18, 2010 (age 50). Revision with L3 Osteotomy, Replacement of hardware T11 - S1 , addition of bilateral pelvic fixation. Correction of sagittal imbalance and kyphosis.

        January 24, 2012 (age 52) Revision to repair pseudoarthrosis and 2 broken rods at L3/L4.

        Comment


        • #5
          Nap town, I just want to make sure I understand: you are fused to the sacrum, but you can sit cross-legged on the floor, or with your legs out in front, and you are comfortable and don't feel tipped back? Can you lean forward at all in that position?

          I'm wondering if hip flexibility is part of the picture. I have excellent hip flexibility and would be surprised if I couldn't close tighter than 90 degrees after I've healed, fused to the sacrum. But maybe I'm overly optimistic in that regard. I hope not.
          Stephanie, age 56
          Diagnosed age 8
          Milwaukee brace 9 years, no further treatment, symptom free and clueless until my 40s that curves could progress.
          Thoracolumbar curve 39 degrees at age 17
          Now somewhere around 58 degrees thoracic, 70 degrees thoracolumbar
          Surgeon Dr. Michael S. O'Brien, Baylor's Southwest Scoliosis Center, Dallas TX
          Bilateral laminectomies at L3 to L4, L4 to L5 and L5 to S1 on April 4, 2012
          Foramenotomies L3 through S1 in August 2014

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm interested in the answer too because it's not just uncomfortable for me, I can't unless I can somehow grab my legs and hang onto them for a bit. Did you get better at this with practice/a different therapy or something. I just tip backwards! Janet
            Janet

            61 years old--57 for surgery

            Diagnosed in 1965 at age of 13--no brace
            Thoracic Curve: 96 degrees to 35 degrees
            Lumbar Curve: 63 degrees to 5 degrees
            Surgery with Dr. Lenke in St. Louis--March 30, 2009
            T-2 to Pelvis, and hopefully all posterior procedure.

            All was posterior along with 2 cages and 6 osteotomies.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by HappyDeanna View Post
              I'm over a year post op & doing great, zero back pain....was fused T10 to S1.
              I have 2 questions: My gait is slow now....don't seem able to get my legs
              to move fast??
              If I am sitting on the floor, on my butt, with my legs
              angled out, my body wants to lean backwards unless I grab my legs to keep
              myself erect. I seem to have no forward motion at all. Is it no longer possible to bend forwards as in many yoga poses??? I thought that would be hip movement & not waist/back forward bending?
              Anyone else out there experiencing anything similar?
              HappyDeanna
              65 years
              surgery 7/8/09
              Dr. Nitin Bahtia
              UCI Medical Center/Orange,CA
              back movement?
              Totally normal.
              Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
              ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
              Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

              Comment


              • #8
                I shudder to myself just THINKING about sitting in that pose. I know it would be very uncomfortable for me, and I'm fused to L3.
                __________________________________________
                Debbe - 50 yrs old

                Milwalkee Brace 1976 - 79
                Told by Dr. my curve would never progress

                Surgery 10/15/08 in NYC by Dr. Michael Neuwirth
                Pre-Surgury Thorasic: 66 degrees
                Pre-Surgery Lumbar: 66 degrees

                Post-Surgery Thorasic: 34 degrees
                Post-Surgery Lumbar: 22 degrees

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mojo's Mom View Post
                  Nap town, I just want to make sure I understand: you are fused to the sacrum, but you can sit cross-legged on the floor, or with your legs out in front, and you are comfortable and don't feel tipped back? Can you lean forward at all in that position?

                  I'm wondering if hip flexibility is part of the picture. I have excellent hip flexibility and would be surprised if I couldn't close tighter than 90 degrees after I've healed, fused to the sacrum. But maybe I'm overly optimistic in that regard. I hope not.

                  Mojo,
                  I think you misunderstood my answer. I was saying that the fact that just because it is not that comfortable for me to sit on the floor with my legs extended is no great loss for me. I didn't sit like that anyway before my surgery. And , yes I can sit cross legged on the floor and not feel tipped back. I can lean forward a bit, but again I don't sit on the floor much because I have chairs and couches I would rather sit on. My hamstrings are very tight so to extend my legs out in front of me is the biggest problem, but I can do it. I do feel a bit tipped back when I go to get up off the floor from sitting or get down on the floor. But this is not a big deal to me. I have no back pain and that makes everything worth it!
                  May 2008 Fusion T4 - S1, Pre-op Curves T45, L70 (age 48). Unsuccessful surgery.

                  March 18, 2010 (age 50). Revision with L3 Osteotomy, Replacement of hardware T11 - S1 , addition of bilateral pelvic fixation. Correction of sagittal imbalance and kyphosis.

                  January 24, 2012 (age 52) Revision to repair pseudoarthrosis and 2 broken rods at L3/L4.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I just tried it and though it's still very uncomfortable, I can sit upright with my legs extended or crossed. Last time I tried it, I just tipped backwards. But I never sit on the floor anyway, so it's not a problem.
                    Surgery March 3, 2009 at almost 58, now 63.
                    Dr. Askin, Brisbane, Australia
                    T4-Pelvis, Posterior only
                    Osteotomies and Laminectomies
                    Was 68 degrees, now 22 and pain free

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi HappyDeanna

                      You described my situation to a T. I'm also just over a year post op and was fused T10 to S1. My gait is slower than it was in the earlier months post op. I cannot sit on the floor with my back straight, but I could not do that pre op either so I don't consider that a new issue for me. I am also having issues with my left leg - sciatic pain, numbness in my ankle and foot.

                      I have been back in PT for a little over a month to deal with my gait. One of the major finding in my PT assessment is that I have hardly any mobility in my hips, so some of my PT exercises are focusing on that. My gait has improved some. Another finding, this time from my pilates instructor, is that I have very limited mobility in my ankles. Since I had polio as a child and have been stiff all my life, it is hard for me to tell what is new. However, I do believe that the lack of hip mobility is affecting my gait.

                      At my one-year appointment with my surgeon, I discussed the sciatic pain and numbness. My surgeon gave me a prescription for a CAT scan to see if there is something going on in my SI area that didn't show up on my X-ray, which looked great. I had the scan yesterday so I don't have the results yet. I'll post them here if they show anything.

                      Hang in there. You are not alone with your gait issue.

                      Karen
                      Karen, 66 years "young"
                      Polio at 6
                      Diagnosed with scoliosis at school; no treatment
                      Lumbar curve in 2005: 40; moderate pain
                      Lumbar curve in 2009: 55; pain severe
                      Lumbar curve after surgery: 21
                      Surgeon - Dr. William Lauerman, Georgetown University Hospital, Washington, DC
                      Three surgeries in one week:
                      8/24/09 L3 to S1 anterior spinal fusion with Harm cage
                      8/28/09 Posterior spinal fusion from T10 to S1 with instrumentation
                      9/1/09 Partial revision of instrumentation

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm not fused, but also cannot sit on the floor without leaning back . DD is fused to L-3 and does not seem to have issues. Oldest DD will be fused from T-3 and I asked about the difference in movement limitation compared to my youngest and was told the Lumber is the most flexible and since they will be to the same level there it won't be different. DD is 7 month from surgery and the Dr lifted her movement restrictions @6 - she has not complained of limitations in movement. She often sits on the floor that way without issue.

                        For me it's muscle that limits - I should work on my core muscles. If when you grab your legs you can hold that position could it be muscular?
                        Dee - Mother of two daughters, both with scoliosis KateScoliKid (16yo) 52* Lumbar curve
                        Fusion Surgery 2/9/10 T-11->L-3 @CHKD Norfolk VA
                        Jes (20yo) T 3 -> L 3 w/ Kyphosis

                        Comment

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