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  • Going forward with surgery

    I met with Dr Gupta yesterday and had new x-rays done and asked him a lot of questions. Overwhelming to say the least!

    First of all, the measurement of my thoracic curve is making me a little nuts! March of last year my first surgeon said it was about 56*. Dr Gupta read those same x-rays 4 months later and disagreed and said they were 53*. I had new x-rays done at that July visit that were read as 61*. Yesterday, my new x-rays were 58* and the x-rays from last July were re-measured at 57*! This is crazy! I know that it's very subjective & I should not obsess over this number but it seems to be pretty important in determining progression, right? I noticed that Dr Gupta had a Fellow do the measurements, a different 1 at each visit, thus the discrepencies I guess. I wasn't expecting progression anyway, my point in meeting yesterday was to discuss surgery.

    He will do it as I am a candidate, but he said I could wait 5 years and see how much it is progressing. I am 50 now and in his words, young (ha!) but I feel the time is right since I am so healthy, well-insured, and desiring to change careers soon. What's hard is that I have no proof of progression since I haven't been x-rayed since I was about 12 & who knows where those x-rays are, & I certainly don't remember anything (I blocked it out). So he's basing progression on my comments and my husband's belief that my back hump is worse. But I'm already seeing my measurements all over the place so when will there be absolute proof of progression?

    Cosmetic is one of my main reasons for having this too. My clothes do not fit right, my posture is bad when I sit, my torso is so off balance, and I have 1 leg longer. I bet many of you have these same issues!

    I do not have constant pain - I have pain only when sitting or standing or walking for an hour or so. (Hmmmm, so I guess that unless I want to lay on a couch all day everyday, I'll be fine!) I do have every day muscle discomfort. So if it's the weekend and I'm active, I'm pretty OK. But at work I have to get up a lot & walk around. I'm also studying right now to be a medical transcriptionist and I sit for HOURS and I have to get up every hour or I'm getting out the trusty heating pad and eventually I have to quit typing for the day. But since I plan on becoming a transcriptionist, I will HAVE to sit for hours, & that is not possible now and it will get worse. Aside from my thoracic-area pain, I also have lumbar pain after exertion, which he said based on my x-rays is likely due to arthritis and has nothing to do with my curve. That was a shock. So even with surgery, my lumbar pain will not get better? I was hoping that it was my curve that was putting undue pressure on my lumbar vertebra.

    He is quite confident that he can get about 75% correction with my curve, maybe down to the teens. The fusion will be from T2 to L2 or L3. I have a significant hump that he feels will be almost gone with a thoracoplasty and he does quite a few of those. I am very confident with him doing my surgery, I just want to be sure that I'm fully educated about this. My plan is to have it this September or October, it's up to me. They were ready to schedule me yesterday but I was so overwhelmed that I decided to think about it. I just can't imagine waiting for years until I am in constant pain, especially when I've learned that it is not guaranteed that the pain will go away after surgery! It could remain the same or even get worse.

    Wow! For those of you who went forward with the surgery or are about to, I applaud you! You are/were very brave as this is probably the hardest decision we will ever make.
    Laurie
    Age 57
    Posterior fusion w/thoracoplasty T2-L3 Oct 1, 2010
    Thoracic curve corrected from 61* to 16*
    Lumbar curve, unknown measurement
    Disfiguring back hump GONE!!
    Dr Munish Gupta
    UC Davis Medical Center, Sacramento, CA

  • #2
    I suggest you do some research about the thoracoplasty. Dr. Boachie who is the head of scoliosis surgery at the Hospital for Special Surgery in New York, the number one rated orthopedic hospital in the county, doesn't seem to like them. Otherwise, it seems likely that you will experience some relief after the surgery, based on the reports of others here. Best, Joy

    Comment


    • #3
      you didnt mention whether you have had several opinions on your surgery...especially considering what Joy has said that Dr Boachie feels about thoracoplasties!

      i cant imagine doing this surgery for cosmetic reasons at the age of 50, but that is just my opinion...
      at the ripe old age of 61, i really dont care what my back looks like..only what it feels like...and mine hurts a great deal!! all the time!! which is why i am considering surgery...but waiting to see if doctors in nyc pick up the newer less invasive method for lumbar surgery...

      good luck whenever you go through with it...

      jess

      Comment


      • #4
        The severity of my hump cannot be corrected fully with just the fusion. I want to have the best correction that I can without having a 2nd surgery later.

        Oh my, I'm 50 not 90! Cosmetic is just one of the reasons I want to have this surgery.
        Laurie
        Age 57
        Posterior fusion w/thoracoplasty T2-L3 Oct 1, 2010
        Thoracic curve corrected from 61* to 16*
        Lumbar curve, unknown measurement
        Disfiguring back hump GONE!!
        Dr Munish Gupta
        UC Davis Medical Center, Sacramento, CA

        Comment


        • #5
          My curve did not seem to move from age 13 - about 49-50 then it progressed rapidly. I thought I'd got away with doing nothing about it but obviously I didn't. As the curve progressed, so did the discomfort. I only really noticed the hump at about age 55. I did not have a thoracoplasty but my hump has gone. Perhaps one more opinion could be warranted?
          Surgery March 3, 2009 at almost 58, now 63.
          Dr. Askin, Brisbane, Australia
          T4-Pelvis, Posterior only
          Osteotomies and Laminectomies
          Was 68 degrees, now 22 and pain free

          Comment


          • #6
            Iray

            Just one comment on the x-ray measures. It is hard to get consistency in the numbers. There have been a lot of studies on reading x-rays. Here are some details on how much the measurement can be off:

            1. Positioning of the patient when getting the x-ray - measurement can be off by 17 degrees

            2. One doctor, reading the x-rays and taking a measurement multiple times, of the same x-ray - measurement can be off by 5-6 degrees (by the same doctor)

            3. Two doctors - the measurement can be off by 10-12 degrees. Looking at the same x-ray, one doctor can measure 50 and the next 60-62.

            4. The curve can be off by up to 5 degrees between morning and afternoon, based on how tired you are

            5. The curve can be off by 2-3 degrees on whether it was taken facing forward or backward

            These are just some examples. I know how you feel about these measurements. It always frustrates me. I get my x-rays now at a hospital that puts them on dvd and it has a tool for measuring the angle, so I always do some of the measurements myself when I get an x-ray (actually x-ray for my daughter).

            Good Luck
            Michael

            Comment


            • #7
              Iray

              Having multiple x-rays (dated) for comparison is of value. Probably of more value than the cobb angle figures. There are methods (shadow) that scoli orthos use for measuring rotation of vertebrae in the coronal plane only, which has a lot to do with size of rib humps. Cts are great in that respect.

              Dated digitals are best, that goes for cts also. I have posted my cts, and you can see the rotation after my surgeries. Its on my one of my threads, titled rotational ct scans. The view is from feet to head. My rib hump is gone, but my vertebrae are about 30 degrees off.

              Once again, Cobb angles are only one factor involved with scoliosis.
              I wouldn’t worry about Cobb angles too much, since you "are" a candidate for surgery. The chances of a 1 degree per year progression from now on, are of concern at 50 years of age.

              I was a Luque candidate back in 1974. All these years I have always known, I would have my day..... With having multiple major pain events, that acted as a catalyst. It made a very tough decision much easier.

              Have you been to any of the scoli meetings with Diane Gums?
              Ed
              49 yr old male, now 63, the new 64...
              Pre surgery curves T70,L70
              ALIF/PSA T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
              Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

              Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
              http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

              My x-rays
              http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

              http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jrnyc View Post
                which is why i am considering surgery...but waiting to see if doctors in nyc pick up the newer less invasive method for lumbar surgery...

                jess
                Jess, looking forward to what you find out. Thanks. Christina
                34L at diagnosis; Boston Brace 1979
                Current: 50L, 28T

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Iray -

                  I see the word 'thoracoplasty' and I just cringe.... I had a noticeable rib hump on the right side and one lower down on the left hip area as I was cork-screwing...

                  I mentioned having to do a thoracoplasty to my surgeon and he made a frowning face indicating he is not a fan, then proceeded to tell me he was nearly certain he could get good enough correction as to not need to do the thoracoplasty. AND I'm happy to report that I have no right rib hump or rib protrusion on the left front, nor do I have that hip hump thing anymore either.

                  Just throwing in my two cents worth!
                  Julie - 51 yrs old

                  Dx'd 1973 - 43* thoracic curve / rotation
                  Wore Milwaukee brace 1973 - 1979
                  Pre-surgery: 63* thoracic / 52* lumbar curves


                  Surgeries: P - March 16, 2009 - Fused T3-S2 with pelvic fixation
                  A -April 14, 2009 - Fused L5-S1
                  Achieved +70% Correction
                  Dr. Khaled Kebaish, (and team) Johns Hopkins Hospital, Baltimore


                  Standing x-ray
                  New Spine 03/19/2009
                  New Spine Lateral 03/19/2009

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The thoracoplasty is apparently not something Dr. Lenke prefers either. I e-mailed my concerns that my rib hump seems to be increasing since surgery and I mentioned that perhaps I might need that. The answer was no. I also had more prominence on lower left. That seems to be better. The right rib hump was never gone from surgery but swelling masked it for quite a while. Part of it is that might right shoulder blade juts out so much. I'll be interested to see what he says in April for my year plus one month appt. Janet
                    Janet

                    61 years old--57 for surgery

                    Diagnosed in 1965 at age of 13--no brace
                    Thoracic Curve: 96 degrees to 35 degrees
                    Lumbar Curve: 63 degrees to 5 degrees
                    Surgery with Dr. Lenke in St. Louis--March 30, 2009
                    T-2 to Pelvis, and hopefully all posterior procedure.

                    All was posterior along with 2 cages and 6 osteotomies.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I had significant reduction of my rib hump with thoracoplasty but it still shows. Dr. Boachie didn't flinch when I asked him but my ribs were pointed from my teen curve of ~100deg. With the 50% reduction of my curves the hump moved more to the middle.
                      The bone from the thoracoplasty was used for my fusion.
                      Original scoliosis surgery 1956 T-4 to L-2 ~100 degree thoracic (triple)curves at age 14. NO hardware-lost correction.
                      Anterior/posterior revision T-4 to Sacrum in 2002, age 60, by Dr. Boachie-Adjei @Hospital for Special Surgery, NY = 50% correction

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Karen--
                        Perhaps you can explain. Exactly how do they do the thoracoplasty. Parts of ribs are removed? I'm not seeing how that would reshape or make hump less prominent. Thanks for your help. Janet
                        Janet

                        61 years old--57 for surgery

                        Diagnosed in 1965 at age of 13--no brace
                        Thoracic Curve: 96 degrees to 35 degrees
                        Lumbar Curve: 63 degrees to 5 degrees
                        Surgery with Dr. Lenke in St. Louis--March 30, 2009
                        T-2 to Pelvis, and hopefully all posterior procedure.

                        All was posterior along with 2 cages and 6 osteotomies.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have seen 2 spine specialists and both recommended surgery within next few years including the thoracoplasty. From what I've read, some surgeons perform them with good results, others feel that it's unnecessary. I don't have to have it done, it is recommended, so I'm thinking about it at this point. I'm still researching as I'm a research nut! My surgery has been scheduled for Oct. 1.
                          Laurie
                          Age 57
                          Posterior fusion w/thoracoplasty T2-L3 Oct 1, 2010
                          Thoracic curve corrected from 61* to 16*
                          Lumbar curve, unknown measurement
                          Disfiguring back hump GONE!!
                          Dr Munish Gupta
                          UC Davis Medical Center, Sacramento, CA

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            During the thorocoplasty, sections of rib bone are removed at the apex of the rib hump. Then the remaining cut ends of the ribs are drawn together so they appear flatter, and the "sleeve" of muscle that surrounds each one is sewn back. Eventually the ribs heal back together and are as strong as they were before.

                            I've had two thorocoplasties. This is unusual and is to do with the fact that I had Infantile Scoliosis, and also because my thoracic spine was fused with a Harrington Rod which could not derotate the vertebrae. I had one done at 18, at the same time as my lumbar fusion, and the second one done as a standalone procedure when I was 25.

                            If your spine still rotates out into the hump it's not possible to completely flatten it, but even so the cosmetic results for me were dramatic.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Tonibunny--
                              Thank you so much for that great explanation. I've never really gotten that before. Janet
                              Janet

                              61 years old--57 for surgery

                              Diagnosed in 1965 at age of 13--no brace
                              Thoracic Curve: 96 degrees to 35 degrees
                              Lumbar Curve: 63 degrees to 5 degrees
                              Surgery with Dr. Lenke in St. Louis--March 30, 2009
                              T-2 to Pelvis, and hopefully all posterior procedure.

                              All was posterior along with 2 cages and 6 osteotomies.

                              Comment

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